4 ms·

I just want a densely populated city that is clean. Why can other countries do this and not the US?

by kgc 5y ago

beeboop 5y ago
Lack of social cohesion, the cause of which could be attributed to a lot of things. Though I will say I live in Seattle and I never drive around downtown or really any area and think it's dirty. But maybe I'm just used to living in cities? Denver seems clean to me too.
wyager 5y ago
Foreign cities that are clean and nice tend to be both very homogenous and high median intelligence. In the absence of homogeneity there will always be defectors who are willing to externalize costs like litter disposal. In an excessively downshifted intelligence distribution there will be insufficient productivity and developmental capacity for a high standard of living. There are few/no large cities in the US which meet these criteria.
zardo 5y ago
Social housing instead of the worst off living in tents and under bridges
onecommentman 5y ago
When you want a “densely populated city”, what exactly do you mean by that, in the year 2022? I assume you mean high-density…there are plenty of clean medium-density cities/suburbs in the US. The US is a big, beautiful, lately-developed, scenically/climatically diverse land that hasn’t had the need to go high-density. Nobody is pushing to build another Manhattan…if the US people had wanted it, the US would have built several Manhattans over the last few decades. Most “normal” (?) US people seem to like their little plot of land and their own detached house, especially as they build families and grow older. The US has always had that luxury/basic human right and the resources to build such houses and that has led to lower population densities even in cities. Most people like a little elbow room (cue the “sprawl is the Devil’s underpants” crowd). In the early-mid 20th Century, “high-density” meant access to major cultural venues and performances, top performances in sports, first crack at new technologies, broader access to economic opportunities, ease of finding your unique subculture that you could fit into, etc.. and you paid for it in cost-of-living and congestion (time/hassle tax). Unless you have a major fixation on live performances on a regular basis, most of those positive arguments have weakened in the face of the advances in IT. Not totally gone away, but an occasional visit to a “densely populated” area will check off most of those boxes. The button that says “I <heart> NY, from a comfortable distance” comes to mind. If a particular densely populated area is your querencia, then of course you have a strong reason/commitment to stay and improve it. Clean it up, it’s your town. Welcome to the slog. You can’t just buy or choose it, you have to build it. If it isn’t your querencia, then the benefits from trying yet another “densely populated” area seem to have weakened over time and perhaps you should broaden your outlook on things. Do you really want 10000/sq mi, or will 2000/sq mi suffice (or even 500/sq mi) with the occasional trip to any one of several densely populated cities? You’ll see more of the US/world that way, and maybe even save money. You’ll certainly save on the congestion/hassle tax on a day-to-day basis. Get to plant a real garden. Smile at your neighbor who isn’t just the jerk who lives above you. What are the positive values that you associate with “densely populated”? They differ by individual. Is it size? There are people who like their City to be so big that they couldn’t possibly grok all of it in their lifetime. There is always something new. Some prefer a City they can just fit into their head, like a comfortable overstuffed chair. Some want a small village, to free the rest of their mind for the rest of the human experience. Enquiring minds want to know…
refurb 5y ago
What other countries? Singapore? You’ll need a system of low wage foreign workers to clean up after your citizens and a complete readjustment to living in small apartment high rises. Americans don’t want either?

I just want a densely populated city that is clean. Why can other countries do this and not the US?

by kgc 5y ago

I just want a densely populated city that is clean. Why can other countries do this and not the US?

Lack of social cohesion, the cause of which could be attributed to a lot of things. Though I will say I live in Seattle and I never drive around downtown or really any area and think it's dirty. But maybe I'm just used to living in cities? Denver seems clean to me too.

wyager 5y ago

Foreign cities that are clean and nice tend to be both very homogenous and high median intelligence. In the absence of homogeneity there will always be defectors who are willing to externalize costs like litter disposal. In an excessively downshifted intelligence distribution there will be insufficient productivity and developmental capacity for a high standard of living. There are few/no large cities in the US which meet these criteria.

zardo 5y ago

Social housing instead of the worst off living in tents and under bridges

onecommentman 5y ago

When you want a “densely populated city”, what exactly do you mean by that, in the year 2022? I assume you mean high-density…there are plenty of clean medium-density cities/suburbs in the US. The US is a big, beautiful, lately-developed, scenically/climatically diverse land that hasn’t had the need to go high-density. Nobody is pushing to build another Manhattan…if the US people had wanted it, the US would have built several Manhattans over the last few decades. Most “normal” (?) US people seem to like their little plot of land and their own detached house, especially as they build families and grow older. The US has always had that luxury/basic human right and the resources to build such houses and that has led to lower population densities even in cities. Most people like a little elbow room (cue the “sprawl is the Devil’s underpants” crowd). In the early-mid 20th Century, “high-density” meant access to major cultural venues and performances, top performances in sports, first crack at new technologies, broader access to economic opportunities, ease of finding your unique subculture that you could fit into, etc.. and you paid for it in cost-of-living and congestion (time/hassle tax). Unless you have a major fixation on live performances on a regular basis, most of those positive arguments have weakened in the face of the advances in IT. Not totally gone away, but an occasional visit to a “densely populated” area will check off most of those boxes. The button that says “I <heart> NY, from a comfortable distance” comes to mind. If a particular densely populated area is your querencia, then of course you have a strong reason/commitment to stay and improve it. Clean it up, it’s your town. Welcome to the slog. You can’t just buy or choose it, you have to build it. If it isn’t your querencia, then the benefits from trying yet another “densely populated” area seem to have weakened over time and perhaps you should broaden your outlook on things. Do you really want 10000/sq mi, or will 2000/sq mi suffice (or even 500/sq mi) with the occasional trip to any one of several densely populated cities? You’ll see more of the US/world that way, and maybe even save money. You’ll certainly save on the congestion/hassle tax on a day-to-day basis. Get to plant a real garden. Smile at your neighbor who isn’t just the jerk who lives above you. What are the positive values that you associate with “densely populated”? They differ by individual. Is it size? There are people who like their City to be so big that they couldn’t possibly grok all of it in their lifetime. There is always something new. Some prefer a City they can just fit into their head, like a comfortable overstuffed chair. Some want a small village, to free the rest of their mind for the rest of the human experience. Enquiring minds want to know…

refurb 5y ago

What other countries? Singapore? You’ll need a system of low wage foreign workers to clean up after your citizens and a complete readjustment to living in small apartment high rises. Americans don’t want either?