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Have a look at insurance premiums that doctors have to pay, especially the high-risk specializations (like neurosurgery). I guess I don't have to explain why t

Have a look at insurance premiums that doctors have to pay, especially the high-risk specializations (like neurosurgery). I guess I don't have to explain why they're so high.

kybernetyk 5y ago
Because medical malpractice is the 3rd most common cause of death in the US (and probably the west)?
- usr1106 5y ago
  Not sure whether that is correct data. Assuming for a moment it is, what would be the impact to life expectancy if nobody went and saw a doctor?
- sdflhasjd 5y ago
  The must be something missing from that statement, I don't see how that could possibly be true - that a third of all people in the US die due to medical malpractice? Accidental death perhaps?
  - aix1 5y ago
    Firstly, "3rd most common cause of death" != "a third of all people". But putting that aside, I too found the claim implausible and went looking for data. Here is what the CDC has to say: Leading Causes of Death Data are for the U.S. Number of deaths for leading causes of death: * Heart disease: 659,041 * Cancer: 599,601 * Accidents (unintentional injuries): 173,040 * Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 156,979 * Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,005 * Alzheimer’s disease: 121,499 * Diabetes: 87,647 * Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 51,565 * Influenza and pneumonia: 49,783 * Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,511 [1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm
    - BrazzVuvuzela 5y ago
      > Analyzing medical death rate data over an eight-year period, Johns Hopkins patient safety experts have calculated that more than 250,000 deaths per year are due to medical error in the U.S. Their figure, published May 3 in The BMJ, surpasses the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC’s) third leading cause of death — respiratory disease, which kills close to 150,000 people per year. > The Johns Hopkins team says the CDC’s way of collecting national health statistics fails to classify medical errors separately on the death certificate. The researchers are advocating for updated criteria for classifying deaths on death certificates. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_suggests_medical_errors_now_third_leading_cause_of_death_in_the_us https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_su... I don't know if this is credible or not, but it's coming from the John Hopkins School of Medicine which I think is broadly credible.
      - aix1 5y ago
        Thanks for sharing. Here is another paper on the subject (cited in the Johns Hopkins study you linked to): https://journals.lww.com/journalpatientsafety/Fulltext/2013/09000/A_New,_Evidence_based_Estimate_of_Patient_Harms.2.aspx https://journals.lww.com/journalpatientsafety/Fulltext/2013/... > Using a weighted average of the 4 studies, a lower limit of 210,000 deaths per year was associated with preventable harm in hospitals. Given limitations in the search capability of the Global Trigger Tool and the incompleteness of medical records on which the Tool depends, the true number of premature deaths associated with preventable harm to patients was estimated at more than 400,000 per year. Serious harm seems to be 10- to 20-fold more common than lethal harm.
sethammons 5y ago
The doctor who delivered one of our kids (and turned out also delivered my wife!) had to deliver three babies a week to cover malpractice insurance even though he had never had a case against him.
romwell 5y ago
Why are you bringing this up? This derails the discussion. The parent's point was that, unlike in Europe, when someone is injured by no fault of their own, the expected way for them to pay for the (very high) medical costs is to sue the offending party. That's the excuse for not offering universal healthcare. Incidentally, it also explains why the doctors need insurance (because malpractice does happen sometimes, and if your health is damaged by it, you won't get a nickel of support unless you sue the offending party - i.e. the doctor). That wouldn't be such an issue if we had universal healthcare and a support net for people who can't work.

Have a look at insurance premiums that doctors have to pay, especially the high-risk specializations (like neurosurgery). I guess I don't have to explain why they're so high.

kybernetyk 5y ago

Because medical malpractice is the 3rd most common cause of death in the US (and probably the west)?

usr1106 5y ago
Not sure whether that is correct data. Assuming for a moment it is, what would be the impact to life expectancy if nobody went and saw a doctor?
sdflhasjd 5y ago
The must be something missing from that statement, I don't see how that could possibly be true - that a third of all people in the US die due to medical malpractice? Accidental death perhaps?
- aix1 5y ago
  Firstly, "3rd most common cause of death" != "a third of all people". But putting that aside, I too found the claim implausible and went looking for data. Here is what the CDC has to say: Leading Causes of Death Data are for the U.S. Number of deaths for leading causes of death: * Heart disease: 659,041 * Cancer: 599,601 * Accidents (unintentional injuries): 173,040 * Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 156,979 * Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 150,005 * Alzheimer’s disease: 121,499 * Diabetes: 87,647 * Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 51,565 * Influenza and pneumonia: 49,783 * Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,511 [1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm
  - BrazzVuvuzela 5y ago
    > Analyzing medical death rate data over an eight-year period, Johns Hopkins patient safety experts have calculated that more than 250,000 deaths per year are due to medical error in the U.S. Their figure, published May 3 in The BMJ, surpasses the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC’s) third leading cause of death — respiratory disease, which kills close to 150,000 people per year. > The Johns Hopkins team says the CDC’s way of collecting national health statistics fails to classify medical errors separately on the death certificate. The researchers are advocating for updated criteria for classifying deaths on death certificates. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_suggests_medical_errors_now_third_leading_cause_of_death_in_the_us https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_su... I don't know if this is credible or not, but it's coming from the John Hopkins School of Medicine which I think is broadly credible.
    - aix1 5y ago
      Thanks for sharing. Here is another paper on the subject (cited in the Johns Hopkins study you linked to): https://journals.lww.com/journalpatientsafety/Fulltext/2013/09000/A_New,_Evidence_based_Estimate_of_Patient_Harms.2.aspx https://journals.lww.com/journalpatientsafety/Fulltext/2013/... > Using a weighted average of the 4 studies, a lower limit of 210,000 deaths per year was associated with preventable harm in hospitals. Given limitations in the search capability of the Global Trigger Tool and the incompleteness of medical records on which the Tool depends, the true number of premature deaths associated with preventable harm to patients was estimated at more than 400,000 per year. Serious harm seems to be 10- to 20-fold more common than lethal harm.

sethammons 5y ago

The doctor who delivered one of our kids (and turned out also delivered my wife!) had to deliver three babies a week to cover malpractice insurance even though he had never had a case against him.

romwell 5y ago

Why are you bringing this up? This derails the discussion. The parent's point was that, unlike in Europe, when someone is injured by no fault of their own, the expected way for them to pay for the (very high) medical costs is to sue the offending party. That's the excuse for not offering universal healthcare. Incidentally, it also explains why the doctors need insurance (because malpractice does happen sometimes, and if your health is damaged by it, you won't get a nickel of support unless you sue the offending party - i.e. the doctor). That wouldn't be such an issue if we had universal healthcare and a support net for people who can't work.