5 ms·

> White people (myself included) have benefited from minority oppression for centuries I can't get past this. Just because some shit happened ages ago, you can

> White people (myself included) have benefited from minority oppression for centuries I can't get past this. Just because some shit happened ages ago, you can't penalize current generation. I feel so digusted by this idea, it is extremely repulsive. There is no limit, no objectivity, you can go far back as centuries to feel guilt. Instead of looking forward, it is looking backwards. America is one of those nations where once you're 18, you're on your own. Go win the world, it's your oyster. That's what my parents think. I am successful here as a person of color, not because of my skin but due to meritocracy. You can twist this as much you want, but it changes the entire idea of 'fairness' in a generation of people. Instead of treating people equally, you're advocating more racism. > I also think you perhaps don't know what "anarchy" is, if you think we have that in left-leaning cities. This is anarchy IMO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protest

nebula8804 5y ago
When this conversation comes up I am reminded of this picture: [1]: https://reshmasanthosh91.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/picture1.png https://reshmasanthosh91.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/picture... As an immigrant to the US, your family likely had some level of success in order to afford to be able to come here. It is not easy to immigrate to the US. After all the people who uproot their lives are the brave ones who are willing to put in the work. This success was aided from a mentality that was ingrained over multiple generations. I have noticed this mentality with multiple immigrants from various countries. What you may not have internalized is the context in which all these people have grown up in the US. You need to suspend your biases for a moment: Imagine you are born in the inner city, your parents may not even be together(divorced or missing) during your formative years and money is always a struggle. Now add in the local community is super rough and there may be a local culture of discouragement in excelling(ie, you are targeted by others if you stick out and try to escape your circumstances). Now include an overpopulated school system that may or may not be extremely underfunded. Finally sprinkle on the chance that if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, you could end up in jail due to circumstance beyond your control(you are around a robbery/killing despite not participating in it) or worse accidentally shot by a cop. If you end up in jail, you are finished for life as this system is extremely harsh on people who enter the system. It is extremely difficult to escape the system once you enter. You may be hosed for generations. Now you may ask, how did the family end up in that spot to begin with? Well it could go all the way back to slavery. The White slaveowners may have lost their slaves but they profited from the wealth created by the slaves in the form of infrastructure or equity. That wealth does not disappear and is passed down from generation to generation. Now combine this with more modern practices like Redlining which served to invest in White America after WW2 while purposely excluding everyone else. Again white families building up additional wealth over generations while minorities are locked out. Is it any surprise we are in the current situation? On another note: A lot of modern immigrants have tech to thank for their miracle in life. Here is an industry which the local population is not massively adept in and pays way above average salaries. It is a once in a generation opportunity for masses of immigrants to cut the line and catch up to white America that has generations of equity. In some cases, immigrants are blowing past white America (since rural America is flatlining). I hate the fact that many immigrants are ignorant of this reality. It will lead to people worse than Trump and sometimes it terrifies me that it will blow up in the immigrants faces when the incumbent citizenry has had enough and they push back.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  No offense but this is a recently formed opinion. If you asked any Obama-era progressives, they would be shocked at what you’re saying. Proof from NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/31/us/politics/obama-woke-cancel-culture.amp.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/31/us/politics/obama-woke-ca... My family moved here with $8000. I went to college for free (HOPE scholarship). I’ve been listening to centrist republicans and my vote is going to go for them. Possibly forever unless Democrats fix this wokeness.
  - nobodyandproud 5y ago
    “biggest enemy is a white liberal”: https://www.thetimesnews.com/story/opinion/columns/2019/01/04/editorial-blacks-biggest-enemy-is-white-liberal/984897007/ https://www.thetimesnews.com/story/opinion/columns/2019/01/0... When I was younger, I had a hard time understanding Malcolm X’s position; but individuals like Clarence Thomas and the ongoings of the 2020s have made it very clear. I’d love to see moderate Republicans and the “equal opportunity” Black caucus find more common ground here. Why? From first-hand experience (non-white) I can also attest to the racism of the liberal camp being present and more insidious.
    - systemvoltage 5y ago
      Most centrist Republicans value equality. They've moved further left to capture the moderates. The problem is the Berkeley progressives (the extreme left) has no concession in their sights. They want to tear down institutions and gut it out. Kind of how the cryto currency guys want to start seasteading and destroy the US Federal Gov but entirely on a different axis. I find race discussion from Columbia University linguist and NYTimes Columnist, John McWhorter, fascinating and profoundly pragmatic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gQj5bkUeAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gQj5bkUeAc I am so worn out from all this. Living here in Oakland, I cannot, absolutely will not raise my children here. Actively seeking jobs in Texas, Florida, Colorado, Georgia and North Carolina.
pope_meat 5y ago
I spent a fair amount of time at CHOP. I think folks are blowing things out of proportion freaking out about it. If that's what anarachy is like, it's honestly not that bad.
- defen 5y ago
  There were 4 shootings in a span of 10 days at CHOP (the entire thing lasted 23 days and covered 6 blocks). A 16 year old and a 19 year old were killed and four other people were shot, including a 14 year old. That's "not that bad"?
  - pope_meat 5y ago
    Seattle has 500 shootings a year. It just is what it is, so 4 over 23 days doesn't seem that extraordinary.
    - defen 5y ago
      500 shootings - how many of those were homicides? Also, Seattle is 83 square miles. I'm talking about what happened within a 6-block area over a span of 23 days.
peppermint_tea 5y ago
> Just because some shit happened ages ago although it is tempting to say let's have a fresh start from today, and we are all equal and all have the same chances, some damage are made across generations (e.g check the wikipedia of Canadian Indian residential school system) end of slavery in the u.s : 1865 end of racial segregation in the u.s : 1964~1968 gerrymandering : ongoing this does not seems age/centuries ago to me, and a group(white) definitely profited from this inequality and pass the wealth on their heir, giving them an early advantage in life. all I am saying, is, invest where the social need is, not based on the color of skin...
- martin8412 5y ago
  Slavery never ended in the US. It's alive and thriving to this day. They just need to throw a bunch of made up charges at you, so you plead guilty instead to a minor sentence instead of risking spending the rest of your life.

nebula8804 5y ago

When this conversation comes up I am reminded of this picture: [1]: https://reshmasanthosh91.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/picture1.png https://reshmasanthosh91.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/picture... As an immigrant to the US, your family likely had some level of success in order to afford to be able to come here. It is not easy to immigrate to the US. After all the people who uproot their lives are the brave ones who are willing to put in the work. This success was aided from a mentality that was ingrained over multiple generations. I have noticed this mentality with multiple immigrants from various countries. What you may not have internalized is the context in which all these people have grown up in the US. You need to suspend your biases for a moment: Imagine you are born in the inner city, your parents may not even be together(divorced or missing) during your formative years and money is always a struggle. Now add in the local community is super rough and there may be a local culture of discouragement in excelling(ie, you are targeted by others if you stick out and try to escape your circumstances). Now include an overpopulated school system that may or may not be extremely underfunded. Finally sprinkle on the chance that if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, you could end up in jail due to circumstance beyond your control(you are around a robbery/killing despite not participating in it) or worse accidentally shot by a cop. If you end up in jail, you are finished for life as this system is extremely harsh on people who enter the system. It is extremely difficult to escape the system once you enter. You may be hosed for generations. Now you may ask, how did the family end up in that spot to begin with? Well it could go all the way back to slavery. The White slaveowners may have lost their slaves but they profited from the wealth created by the slaves in the form of infrastructure or equity. That wealth does not disappear and is passed down from generation to generation. Now combine this with more modern practices like Redlining which served to invest in White America after WW2 while purposely excluding everyone else. Again white families building up additional wealth over generations while minorities are locked out. Is it any surprise we are in the current situation? On another note: A lot of modern immigrants have tech to thank for their miracle in life. Here is an industry which the local population is not massively adept in and pays way above average salaries. It is a once in a generation opportunity for masses of immigrants to cut the line and catch up to white America that has generations of equity. In some cases, immigrants are blowing past white America (since rural America is flatlining). I hate the fact that many immigrants are ignorant of this reality. It will lead to people worse than Trump and sometimes it terrifies me that it will blow up in the immigrants faces when the incumbent citizenry has had enough and they push back.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
systemvoltage 5y ago
No offense but this is a recently formed opinion. If you asked any Obama-era progressives, they would be shocked at what you’re saying. Proof from NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/31/us/politics/obama-woke-cancel-culture.amp.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/31/us/politics/obama-woke-ca... My family moved here with $8000. I went to college for free (HOPE scholarship). I’ve been listening to centrist republicans and my vote is going to go for them. Possibly forever unless Democrats fix this wokeness.
- nobodyandproud 5y ago
  “biggest enemy is a white liberal”: https://www.thetimesnews.com/story/opinion/columns/2019/01/04/editorial-blacks-biggest-enemy-is-white-liberal/984897007/ https://www.thetimesnews.com/story/opinion/columns/2019/01/0... When I was younger, I had a hard time understanding Malcolm X’s position; but individuals like Clarence Thomas and the ongoings of the 2020s have made it very clear. I’d love to see moderate Republicans and the “equal opportunity” Black caucus find more common ground here. Why? From first-hand experience (non-white) I can also attest to the racism of the liberal camp being present and more insidious.
  - systemvoltage 5y ago
    Most centrist Republicans value equality. They've moved further left to capture the moderates. The problem is the Berkeley progressives (the extreme left) has no concession in their sights. They want to tear down institutions and gut it out. Kind of how the cryto currency guys want to start seasteading and destroy the US Federal Gov but entirely on a different axis. I find race discussion from Columbia University linguist and NYTimes Columnist, John McWhorter, fascinating and profoundly pragmatic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gQj5bkUeAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gQj5bkUeAc I am so worn out from all this. Living here in Oakland, I cannot, absolutely will not raise my children here. Actively seeking jobs in Texas, Florida, Colorado, Georgia and North Carolina.

pope_meat 5y ago

I spent a fair amount of time at CHOP. I think folks are blowing things out of proportion freaking out about it. If that's what anarachy is like, it's honestly not that bad.

defen 5y ago
There were 4 shootings in a span of 10 days at CHOP (the entire thing lasted 23 days and covered 6 blocks). A 16 year old and a 19 year old were killed and four other people were shot, including a 14 year old. That's "not that bad"?
- pope_meat 5y ago
  Seattle has 500 shootings a year. It just is what it is, so 4 over 23 days doesn't seem that extraordinary.
  - defen 5y ago
    500 shootings - how many of those were homicides? Also, Seattle is 83 square miles. I'm talking about what happened within a 6-block area over a span of 23 days.

peppermint_tea 5y ago

> Just because some shit happened ages ago although it is tempting to say let's have a fresh start from today, and we are all equal and all have the same chances, some damage are made across generations (e.g check the wikipedia of Canadian Indian residential school system) end of slavery in the u.s : 1865 end of racial segregation in the u.s : 1964~1968 gerrymandering : ongoing this does not seems age/centuries ago to me, and a group(white) definitely profited from this inequality and pass the wealth on their heir, giving them an early advantage in life. all I am saying, is, invest where the social need is, not based on the color of skin...

martin8412 5y ago
Slavery never ended in the US. It's alive and thriving to this day. They just need to throw a bunch of made up charges at you, so you plead guilty instead to a minor sentence instead of risking spending the rest of your life.