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I need to vent out. I am an immigrant to USA at young age and now naturalized citizen. Ever since I got citizenship, I've for voted for Democrats because they r

I need to vent out. I am an immigrant to USA at young age and now naturalized citizen. Ever since I got citizenship, I've for voted for Democrats because they represent my values. But today's left-wing is unbearable for me. We've thrown away meritocracy, liberty and rule of law. Instead, we have rampant racism (against Whites), authoritarian undertones at policy level, and straight up anarchy in many municipalities. It's constant barrage of identity politics to divide people into groups, its a constant government corruption and a constant attack on the spirit of of this nation that attracted my parents to move here. These people want to rewrite history in darkest possible terms. People in my country of origin are shocked at what's going on in American left, they are already aware of the right. It's all fucked up.

kelnos 5y ago
[flagged]
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  > White people (myself included) have benefited from minority oppression for centuries I can't get past this. Just because some shit happened ages ago, you can't penalize current generation. I feel so digusted by this idea, it is extremely repulsive. There is no limit, no objectivity, you can go far back as centuries to feel guilt. Instead of looking forward, it is looking backwards. America is one of those nations where once you're 18, you're on your own. Go win the world, it's your oyster. That's what my parents think. I am successful here as a person of color, not because of my skin but due to meritocracy. You can twist this as much you want, but it changes the entire idea of 'fairness' in a generation of people. Instead of treating people equally, you're advocating more racism. > I also think you perhaps don't know what "anarchy" is, if you think we have that in left-leaning cities. This is anarchy IMO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protest
  - nebula8804 5y ago
    When this conversation comes up I am reminded of this picture: [1]: https://reshmasanthosh91.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/picture1.png https://reshmasanthosh91.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/picture... As an immigrant to the US, your family likely had some level of success in order to afford to be able to come here. It is not easy to immigrate to the US. After all the people who uproot their lives are the brave ones who are willing to put in the work. This success was aided from a mentality that was ingrained over multiple generations. I have noticed this mentality with multiple immigrants from various countries. What you may not have internalized is the context in which all these people have grown up in the US. You need to suspend your biases for a moment: Imagine you are born in the inner city, your parents may not even be together(divorced or missing) during your formative years and money is always a struggle. Now add in the local community is super rough and there may be a local culture of discouragement in excelling(ie, you are targeted by others if you stick out and try to escape your circumstances). Now include an overpopulated school system that may or may not be extremely underfunded. Finally sprinkle on the chance that if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, you could end up in jail due to circumstance beyond your control(you are around a robbery/killing despite not participating in it) or worse accidentally shot by a cop. If you end up in jail, you are finished for life as this system is extremely harsh on people who enter the system. It is extremely difficult to escape the system once you enter. You may be hosed for generations. Now you may ask, how did the family end up in that spot to begin with? Well it could go all the way back to slavery. The White slaveowners may have lost their slaves but they profited from the wealth created by the slaves in the form of infrastructure or equity. That wealth does not disappear and is passed down from generation to generation. Now combine this with more modern practices like Redlining which served to invest in White America after WW2 while purposely excluding everyone else. Again white families building up additional wealth over generations while minorities are locked out. Is it any surprise we are in the current situation? On another note: A lot of modern immigrants have tech to thank for their miracle in life. Here is an industry which the local population is not massively adept in and pays way above average salaries. It is a once in a generation opportunity for masses of immigrants to cut the line and catch up to white America that has generations of equity. In some cases, immigrants are blowing past white America (since rural America is flatlining). I hate the fact that many immigrants are ignorant of this reality. It will lead to people worse than Trump and sometimes it terrifies me that it will blow up in the immigrants faces when the incumbent citizenry has had enough and they push back.
- random_kris 5y ago
  So basically you are saying your side is the best even though they sometimes make implementation errors (unintended side effects) while the other side is total evil ? Read again what you wrote. We are not living in a movie.
- throwaway05112 5y ago
  I'm starting to believe this white guilt syndrome is a modern day version of the old American puritanism, or some other weird mutation of an idea of sin that somehow found its way into 21st century liberal consciousness. And e.g. cancel culture is the new age version of Salem witch hunts, it comes from the same kind of self-righteous psyche, and is always about the collective vs. individual
  - creamytaco 5y ago
    Having lived in SF for more than a decade, I couldn't agree more. When I left, years ago, the guilt syndrome was so prevalent among well-compensated young tech workers that one could talk about mass-psychosis. I'm told it's gotten a lot worse...
- creamytaco 5y ago
  The world doesn't run on "well-meaning" but realpolitik (look it up). The sort of discriminatory policies you espouse besides being corrosive poison to the unifying forces that create a nation state, fail to account for competition among nations. The USA is free to teach CRT to kids, "decolonize mathematics", destroy meritocracy in public schools, lower the standards and burden young minds with race guilt and a feeling of entitlement (instead of striving for excellence) but one shouldn't be surprised if other countries that have maintained their connection with reality leave us in the dust. If you're not convinced, history is full of examples of ideology-driven politics leading to disaster : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
  - nobodyandproud 5y ago
    From what I’ve seen so far, the racism in math curriculums are mostly about misattribution and credit theft. This is easy to correct and should be corrected in 2021 and onward, but the extreme left somehow dialed things to 11.
    - systemvoltage 5y ago
      I have a feeling it won't be dialed down, but dialed up to 12. There was an awesome cartoon that I can't find anymore - two VW busses side by side. One with a bunch of classic progressive stickers - "Liberty", "Civil Rights", "ACLU", "Free Speech", "EPA", etc. Another one that's beaten up, with "Race", "CRT", "Hate", etc. representing contemporary progressivism.
      - nobodyandproud 5y ago
        It’s crazy. I had a lot of respect for the ACLU, but the days where they stood for something; and everyone could point to the principles and at least begrudgingly admire it are long gone.

kelnos 5y ago

[flagged]

systemvoltage 5y ago
> White people (myself included) have benefited from minority oppression for centuries I can't get past this. Just because some shit happened ages ago, you can't penalize current generation. I feel so digusted by this idea, it is extremely repulsive. There is no limit, no objectivity, you can go far back as centuries to feel guilt. Instead of looking forward, it is looking backwards. America is one of those nations where once you're 18, you're on your own. Go win the world, it's your oyster. That's what my parents think. I am successful here as a person of color, not because of my skin but due to meritocracy. You can twist this as much you want, but it changes the entire idea of 'fairness' in a generation of people. Instead of treating people equally, you're advocating more racism. > I also think you perhaps don't know what "anarchy" is, if you think we have that in left-leaning cities. This is anarchy IMO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protest
- nebula8804 5y ago
  When this conversation comes up I am reminded of this picture: [1]: https://reshmasanthosh91.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/picture1.png https://reshmasanthosh91.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/picture... As an immigrant to the US, your family likely had some level of success in order to afford to be able to come here. It is not easy to immigrate to the US. After all the people who uproot their lives are the brave ones who are willing to put in the work. This success was aided from a mentality that was ingrained over multiple generations. I have noticed this mentality with multiple immigrants from various countries. What you may not have internalized is the context in which all these people have grown up in the US. You need to suspend your biases for a moment: Imagine you are born in the inner city, your parents may not even be together(divorced or missing) during your formative years and money is always a struggle. Now add in the local community is super rough and there may be a local culture of discouragement in excelling(ie, you are targeted by others if you stick out and try to escape your circumstances). Now include an overpopulated school system that may or may not be extremely underfunded. Finally sprinkle on the chance that if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, you could end up in jail due to circumstance beyond your control(you are around a robbery/killing despite not participating in it) or worse accidentally shot by a cop. If you end up in jail, you are finished for life as this system is extremely harsh on people who enter the system. It is extremely difficult to escape the system once you enter. You may be hosed for generations. Now you may ask, how did the family end up in that spot to begin with? Well it could go all the way back to slavery. The White slaveowners may have lost their slaves but they profited from the wealth created by the slaves in the form of infrastructure or equity. That wealth does not disappear and is passed down from generation to generation. Now combine this with more modern practices like Redlining which served to invest in White America after WW2 while purposely excluding everyone else. Again white families building up additional wealth over generations while minorities are locked out. Is it any surprise we are in the current situation? On another note: A lot of modern immigrants have tech to thank for their miracle in life. Here is an industry which the local population is not massively adept in and pays way above average salaries. It is a once in a generation opportunity for masses of immigrants to cut the line and catch up to white America that has generations of equity. In some cases, immigrants are blowing past white America (since rural America is flatlining). I hate the fact that many immigrants are ignorant of this reality. It will lead to people worse than Trump and sometimes it terrifies me that it will blow up in the immigrants faces when the incumbent citizenry has had enough and they push back.
random_kris 5y ago
So basically you are saying your side is the best even though they sometimes make implementation errors (unintended side effects) while the other side is total evil ? Read again what you wrote. We are not living in a movie.
throwaway05112 5y ago
I'm starting to believe this white guilt syndrome is a modern day version of the old American puritanism, or some other weird mutation of an idea of sin that somehow found its way into 21st century liberal consciousness. And e.g. cancel culture is the new age version of Salem witch hunts, it comes from the same kind of self-righteous psyche, and is always about the collective vs. individual
- creamytaco 5y ago
  Having lived in SF for more than a decade, I couldn't agree more. When I left, years ago, the guilt syndrome was so prevalent among well-compensated young tech workers that one could talk about mass-psychosis. I'm told it's gotten a lot worse...
creamytaco 5y ago
The world doesn't run on "well-meaning" but realpolitik (look it up). The sort of discriminatory policies you espouse besides being corrosive poison to the unifying forces that create a nation state, fail to account for competition among nations. The USA is free to teach CRT to kids, "decolonize mathematics", destroy meritocracy in public schools, lower the standards and burden young minds with race guilt and a feeling of entitlement (instead of striving for excellence) but one shouldn't be surprised if other countries that have maintained their connection with reality leave us in the dust. If you're not convinced, history is full of examples of ideology-driven politics leading to disaster : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
- nobodyandproud 5y ago
  From what I’ve seen so far, the racism in math curriculums are mostly about misattribution and credit theft. This is easy to correct and should be corrected in 2021 and onward, but the extreme left somehow dialed things to 11.
  - systemvoltage 5y ago
    I have a feeling it won't be dialed down, but dialed up to 12. There was an awesome cartoon that I can't find anymore - two VW busses side by side. One with a bunch of classic progressive stickers - "Liberty", "Civil Rights", "ACLU", "Free Speech", "EPA", etc. Another one that's beaten up, with "Race", "CRT", "Hate", etc. representing contemporary progressivism.
    - nobodyandproud 5y ago
      It’s crazy. I had a lot of respect for the ACLU, but the days where they stood for something; and everyone could point to the principles and at least begrudgingly admire it are long gone.