3 ms·

The wording is 'sincerely held religious belief' and that's a key phrase in the legislation, as I understand it.

by shrubble 5y ago

actually_a_dog 5y ago
That's why I included the word "bogus."
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  One wishes they had written something like "belief conforming to established practice" or something, that would defend against antivaccionationists making up stuff on the spot.
  - actually_a_dog 5y ago
    Yeah, I agree. A couple people already don't like that I've asked the question, but they won't speak up about it.
hn8788 5y ago
At least for federal employees, some of the questions they ask when judging the sincerity of your belief is what other medical procedures you've opted out of because of your religious belief, and what specific part of your religion forbids you from receiving the vaccine. It definitely wasn't a rubber stamp exemption approval like I thought it would be.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  It should be a rubber stamp. (There should be no religious exemption in the first place). I grew up thinking America’s ideal was to be a country with separation of church and state. I do not see why a religion I make up 10 minutes ago should be any less of a religion than one made 100 years ago.
  - hn8788 5y ago
    If you can prove that you sincerely believe in the religion you made up 10 minutes ago, then you'd get the same exemption. It's not like they gave a list of religions that qualify for exemptions.
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      There's no ethical way to prove sincerity of belief. By ordeal or by torture are all that I can think of, and they both have serious problems.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      So now the government is in the business of measuring sincerity in beliefs? Are Catholics sincere if they have sex before marriage? Use birth control? Get a divorce? Are Jews sincere if they eat non kosher food? Muslims if they eat non Halal and drink alcohol and gamble? Christians who use Christ to persecute others? Such as gay people who want to get married?
      - akiselev 5y ago
        You could just read what the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission says: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/section-12-religious-discrimination#h_9546543277761610748655186 https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/section-12-religious-disc... The sincerity of the belief is a measured by the credibility of the claimant in each specific case. They are assumed to be credible by default unless the other party can show glaring inconsistencies. Even then, the guidance notes that people's beliefs change so challenging such a claim is relatively hard. A sincerely held religious belief is basically a "get out of jail free" card (figuratively) because of the issues you point out. With the preponderance of evidence standard, all one has to do is convince the judge that their belief is more likely to be sincere than not. If one can prove that they go to church on a semi-regular basis, for example, it's nearly impossible to convince a judge that the belief is insincere.
        mbg721 5y ago

The wording is 'sincerely held religious belief' and that's a key phrase in the legislation, as I understand it.

actually_a_dog 5y ago

That's why I included the word "bogus."

HarryHirsch 5y ago
One wishes they had written something like "belief conforming to established practice" or something, that would defend against antivaccionationists making up stuff on the spot.
- actually_a_dog 5y ago
  Yeah, I agree. A couple people already don't like that I've asked the question, but they won't speak up about it.

hn8788 5y ago

At least for federal employees, some of the questions they ask when judging the sincerity of your belief is what other medical procedures you've opted out of because of your religious belief, and what specific part of your religion forbids you from receiving the vaccine. It definitely wasn't a rubber stamp exemption approval like I thought it would be.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
It should be a rubber stamp. (There should be no religious exemption in the first place). I grew up thinking America’s ideal was to be a country with separation of church and state. I do not see why a religion I make up 10 minutes ago should be any less of a religion than one made 100 years ago.
- hn8788 5y ago
  If you can prove that you sincerely believe in the religion you made up 10 minutes ago, then you'd get the same exemption. It's not like they gave a list of religions that qualify for exemptions.
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    There's no ethical way to prove sincerity of belief. By ordeal or by torture are all that I can think of, and they both have serious problems.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    So now the government is in the business of measuring sincerity in beliefs? Are Catholics sincere if they have sex before marriage? Use birth control? Get a divorce? Are Jews sincere if they eat non kosher food? Muslims if they eat non Halal and drink alcohol and gamble? Christians who use Christ to persecute others? Such as gay people who want to get married?
    - akiselev 5y ago
      You could just read what the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission says: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/section-12-religious-discrimination#h_9546543277761610748655186 https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/section-12-religious-disc... The sincerity of the belief is a measured by the credibility of the claimant in each specific case. They are assumed to be credible by default unless the other party can show glaring inconsistencies. Even then, the guidance notes that people's beliefs change so challenging such a claim is relatively hard. A sincerely held religious belief is basically a "get out of jail free" card (figuratively) because of the issues you point out. With the preponderance of evidence standard, all one has to do is convince the judge that their belief is more likely to be sincere than not. If one can prove that they go to church on a semi-regular basis, for example, it's nearly impossible to convince a judge that the belief is insincere.
      - mbg721 5y ago