5 ms·

Honestly none of this is going to matter. The unvaccinated are all going to get the omicron variant over the next few weeks, and after that everybody’s immunity

Honestly none of this is going to matter. The unvaccinated are all going to get the omicron variant over the next few weeks, and after that everybody’s immunity will be pretty much the same, vaccinated or not.

cyanydeez 5y ago
the science doesnt indicate that: 1. immune response is longer lasting than vaccines 2. that omicron is more deadly than predecessors 3. that prior coronovirus infection makes you less prone to omicron get vaccinated.
- StanislavPetrov 5y ago
  The science doesn't indicate that: 1. Vaccine response is longer lasting than natural immunity 2. That omicron is as deadly as predecessors 3. That current vaccines make you less likely to contract omicron know the facts and make informed decisions
- dimitrios1 5y ago
  > 2. that omicron is more deadly than predecessors https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/s-africa-says-hospitalizations-in-omicron-wave-much-lower https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/s-africa-... > get vaccinated. Blanket statements like this continue to promote distrust. https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/12/16/1064909742/cdc-vote-narrow-use-of-johnson-and-johnson-covid-vaccine https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/1... Additionally, there is the VAERS database, which has an inexplicable surge of adverse vaccine related incidents since 2020. Make a personal health decision for yourself and determine if the benefits far exceed the risks. Then, get vaccinated.
  - cyanydeez 5y ago
    sorry man, the distrust you speak of is generated fud for pokitical purposes. so while you may have a grain of truth, its not a useful truth when stripped of the heavy antivaxx movement for political gain.
  - landryraccoon 5y ago
    > Blanket statements like this continue to promote distrust. Hypothetically, if the vaccine was safe and effective, what messaging would you use that would be different from "everyone should get vaccinated"?
    - landemva 5y ago
      How about the feminist slogan, my body my choice.
    - egberts1 5y ago
      I guess we will have to wait 70 years to find out if the COVID vaccine is safe or not.
      - AwaAwa 5y ago
        Just looked it up and wow this is actually true! I'm feeling very confident of my upcoming booster now. Guess I'll just hedge my bet by buying Pfizer stock.
  - baran1 5y ago
    Surge in inputs can be explained by the fact that we’re in a pandemic. Based on the investigation of the VAERS reports, what risks are you talking about?
    - dimitrios1 5y ago
      From 1990, roughly ~600 self reported cases of negative vaccine related effects per year. Now, with the COVID vaccine, we are at over 20k a year and counting. From 1990 through 2020 there were various pandemics across the globe, including a few in the US. In that time, there were several innovations with vaccines, as well. So the dismissal that we are in a pandemic seems suspect.
- WillPostForFood 5y ago
  Not sure that the issue is settled, but there is good science that suggests natural immunity is longer lasting than vaccines. https://www.timesofisrael.com/study-covid-recovery-gave-israelis-longer-lasting-delta-defense-than-vaccines/amp/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/study-covid-recovery-gave-isra...
- dukeofdoom 5y ago
  If Omicron is more infectious to the vaccinated than not vaccinated, that would be super ironic wouldn't it be. Would scientists even admit that. Here's the governments own data for ontario. https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data?fbclid=IwAR2pRUq9GN9EEoDTm0OetspYalQy0Otcc41JS6b-L9BnzLOdhl1eZ1L4FHg https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data?fbclid=IwAR2pRUq9GN9EEoDTm0... If you scroll to the second graph and select 7 days and cases. You will see 2022 cases for the vaccinated, and 778 for the unvaccinated. With the slopes diverging out.
  - senectus1 5y ago
    > If Omicron is more infectious to the vaccinated than not vaccinated, that would be super ironic wouldn't it be. Would scientists even admit that. No that would be by design. particularly if Omicron really is milder to the unvaccinated as well. (that is still an IF). all those vaccinated people will be at the leading edge of the fight to make Omicron the dominant if not the only version of the virus. They will have been a strong wind behind the evolution to "flu like" alterations... Still go an get vaccinated, Still go and get your boosters. You can't leave this to nature, because nature is constantly trying to kill you. There is not "mother earth" or Gaia... there is only the on-going war that is life. Everything competing to eat or out compete each other for resources to make sure their offspring get to fight the same fight.
    - dukeofdoom 5y ago
      The idea of getting more people sick, seems counter intuitive as a goal of a vaccine. Correct me if I'm misreading your comment. Scientists made a vaccine that was by "design" to get: a) "more people sick with new milder variants." b) "more people sick with stronger variants" You're claiming a) if it turns out true. b) makes no sense as a vaccination goal. a) really seems unethical gamble if it turns it's false and we end up with b)
      - perl4ever 5y ago
        Maybe the result (a) is intended and expected, but is not literally "by design" in that there was no other known way to design it.
- tinus_hn 5y ago
  > the science doesnt indicate that: > A > B > C This could mean that the science disproves the previous statement because of reasons A, B and C, or alternatively it could mean that science does not prove statements A, B and C. It’s a weirdly ambiguous sentence structure.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
steve_coral 5y ago
I’m triple vaxxxed and got omicron. I’m not saying don’t get vaccinated, but this is coming for everyone. NYC is getting completely slammed right now. My honest hope is that this is the last wave that’s truly a showstopper - omicron so far for me has been about a mild sinus infection.
- Jansen312 5y ago
  Vaccines for covid are only for lessening the severity. Prevention is widely known not effective for covid vaccines. This is why almost all health professional stop using the phrase "herd immunity". At this stage it is better for everyone to just move on. There will always be people who differ opinions. If they opt to have higher risk of dying from covid and we ourselves have already been jabbed, I think no point to be fixated on it forcing people to do so. There are more people dying from lung cancer, hypertensions, heart attack, diabetes, etc. None bother to address cigs, sugary drinks, overeating as zealously as covid vaccinations. BTW, expect jabbing to be done annually. Your triple jabs are just the "beginning" of the norm.
  - steve_coral 5y ago
    Yeah I mean the flu we experience yearly is “descended” from the Spanish Flu but we don’t require flu passports to get a coffee. Eventually (I hope) the madness will subside. Forcing people to get vaccines will only result in contrarian noncompliance due to the peculiarities of the American psyche. We are much better off in the long run investing in universal health care and increasing access but that’s a non-starter in our political climate
    - perl4ever 5y ago
      I am prepared to submit to authority, even on life and death matters, as long as there is a self-consistent message that I can in principle believe. I'm struggling with the internal contradictions of saying we have a life and death situation where every non-essential office worker must wear a mask at their desk but we can't go back to full time telecommuting. If our dear leader feels there are essential workers needed, I am willing to serve and wear a mask. If she feels that we need to be in the office, and the risk is not that great, I'm willing to do that. If she feels that the risk is high and rising and we should be telecommuting, then I'm ok with that. But don't tell us that we're non-essential and we have to be in the office and we have to wear masks when alone at our desks. Logic dictates a maximum of two out of three.
mbg721 5y ago
Why would it matter what anyone's immunity level was? Having antibodies doesn't matter for the mandates, it's just more shots good, fewer shots bad.
perl4ever 5y ago
I think where I am vaccination rates are upwards of 90%, so I would think essentially everyone getting it is vaccinated or has had a previous variant. Or both. Multiple sites I've tried for making a booster appointment make you choose a location and a day before they tell you "nope, no appointments available". That seems insane, but it also seems to be a pattern and I'm wondering if there are weird incentives that caused them to design it that way instead of telling you what is available.
egberts1 5y ago
LOL! You should check hospitals to see how many fully-vaccinated got checked into ER for Omicron. The admission rate of Omicron over Delta is like ten times worse but its severity is what only milder and much shorter ER visit.

cyanydeez 5y ago

the science doesnt indicate that: 1. immune response is longer lasting than vaccines 2. that omicron is more deadly than predecessors 3. that prior coronovirus infection makes you less prone to omicron get vaccinated.

StanislavPetrov 5y ago
The science doesn't indicate that: 1. Vaccine response is longer lasting than natural immunity 2. That omicron is as deadly as predecessors 3. That current vaccines make you less likely to contract omicron know the facts and make informed decisions
dimitrios1 5y ago
> 2. that omicron is more deadly than predecessors https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/s-africa-says-hospitalizations-in-omicron-wave-much-lower https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/s-africa-... > get vaccinated. Blanket statements like this continue to promote distrust. https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/12/16/1064909742/cdc-vote-narrow-use-of-johnson-and-johnson-covid-vaccine https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/1... Additionally, there is the VAERS database, which has an inexplicable surge of adverse vaccine related incidents since 2020. Make a personal health decision for yourself and determine if the benefits far exceed the risks. Then, get vaccinated.
- cyanydeez 5y ago
  sorry man, the distrust you speak of is generated fud for pokitical purposes. so while you may have a grain of truth, its not a useful truth when stripped of the heavy antivaxx movement for political gain.
- landryraccoon 5y ago
  > Blanket statements like this continue to promote distrust. Hypothetically, if the vaccine was safe and effective, what messaging would you use that would be different from "everyone should get vaccinated"?
  - landemva 5y ago
    How about the feminist slogan, my body my choice.
  - egberts1 5y ago
    I guess we will have to wait 70 years to find out if the COVID vaccine is safe or not.
    - AwaAwa 5y ago
      Just looked it up and wow this is actually true! I'm feeling very confident of my upcoming booster now. Guess I'll just hedge my bet by buying Pfizer stock.
- baran1 5y ago
  Surge in inputs can be explained by the fact that we’re in a pandemic. Based on the investigation of the VAERS reports, what risks are you talking about?
  - dimitrios1 5y ago
    From 1990, roughly ~600 self reported cases of negative vaccine related effects per year. Now, with the COVID vaccine, we are at over 20k a year and counting. From 1990 through 2020 there were various pandemics across the globe, including a few in the US. In that time, there were several innovations with vaccines, as well. So the dismissal that we are in a pandemic seems suspect.
WillPostForFood 5y ago
Not sure that the issue is settled, but there is good science that suggests natural immunity is longer lasting than vaccines. https://www.timesofisrael.com/study-covid-recovery-gave-israelis-longer-lasting-delta-defense-than-vaccines/amp/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/study-covid-recovery-gave-isra...
dukeofdoom 5y ago
If Omicron is more infectious to the vaccinated than not vaccinated, that would be super ironic wouldn't it be. Would scientists even admit that. Here's the governments own data for ontario. https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data?fbclid=IwAR2pRUq9GN9EEoDTm0OetspYalQy0Otcc41JS6b-L9BnzLOdhl1eZ1L4FHg https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data?fbclid=IwAR2pRUq9GN9EEoDTm0... If you scroll to the second graph and select 7 days and cases. You will see 2022 cases for the vaccinated, and 778 for the unvaccinated. With the slopes diverging out.
- senectus1 5y ago
  > If Omicron is more infectious to the vaccinated than not vaccinated, that would be super ironic wouldn't it be. Would scientists even admit that. No that would be by design. particularly if Omicron really is milder to the unvaccinated as well. (that is still an IF). all those vaccinated people will be at the leading edge of the fight to make Omicron the dominant if not the only version of the virus. They will have been a strong wind behind the evolution to "flu like" alterations... Still go an get vaccinated, Still go and get your boosters. You can't leave this to nature, because nature is constantly trying to kill you. There is not "mother earth" or Gaia... there is only the on-going war that is life. Everything competing to eat or out compete each other for resources to make sure their offspring get to fight the same fight.
  - dukeofdoom 5y ago
    The idea of getting more people sick, seems counter intuitive as a goal of a vaccine. Correct me if I'm misreading your comment. Scientists made a vaccine that was by "design" to get: a) "more people sick with new milder variants." b) "more people sick with stronger variants" You're claiming a) if it turns out true. b) makes no sense as a vaccination goal. a) really seems unethical gamble if it turns it's false and we end up with b)
    - perl4ever 5y ago
      Maybe the result (a) is intended and expected, but is not literally "by design" in that there was no other known way to design it.
tinus_hn 5y ago
> the science doesnt indicate that: > A > B > C This could mean that the science disproves the previous statement because of reasons A, B and C, or alternatively it could mean that science does not prove statements A, B and C. It’s a weirdly ambiguous sentence structure.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

steve_coral 5y ago

I’m triple vaxxxed and got omicron. I’m not saying don’t get vaccinated, but this is coming for everyone. NYC is getting completely slammed right now. My honest hope is that this is the last wave that’s truly a showstopper - omicron so far for me has been about a mild sinus infection.

Jansen312 5y ago
Vaccines for covid are only for lessening the severity. Prevention is widely known not effective for covid vaccines. This is why almost all health professional stop using the phrase "herd immunity". At this stage it is better for everyone to just move on. There will always be people who differ opinions. If they opt to have higher risk of dying from covid and we ourselves have already been jabbed, I think no point to be fixated on it forcing people to do so. There are more people dying from lung cancer, hypertensions, heart attack, diabetes, etc. None bother to address cigs, sugary drinks, overeating as zealously as covid vaccinations. BTW, expect jabbing to be done annually. Your triple jabs are just the "beginning" of the norm.
- steve_coral 5y ago
  Yeah I mean the flu we experience yearly is “descended” from the Spanish Flu but we don’t require flu passports to get a coffee. Eventually (I hope) the madness will subside. Forcing people to get vaccines will only result in contrarian noncompliance due to the peculiarities of the American psyche. We are much better off in the long run investing in universal health care and increasing access but that’s a non-starter in our political climate
  - perl4ever 5y ago
    I am prepared to submit to authority, even on life and death matters, as long as there is a self-consistent message that I can in principle believe. I'm struggling with the internal contradictions of saying we have a life and death situation where every non-essential office worker must wear a mask at their desk but we can't go back to full time telecommuting. If our dear leader feels there are essential workers needed, I am willing to serve and wear a mask. If she feels that we need to be in the office, and the risk is not that great, I'm willing to do that. If she feels that the risk is high and rising and we should be telecommuting, then I'm ok with that. But don't tell us that we're non-essential and we have to be in the office and we have to wear masks when alone at our desks. Logic dictates a maximum of two out of three.

mbg721 5y ago

Why would it matter what anyone's immunity level was? Having antibodies doesn't matter for the mandates, it's just more shots good, fewer shots bad.

perl4ever 5y ago

I think where I am vaccination rates are upwards of 90%, so I would think essentially everyone getting it is vaccinated or has had a previous variant. Or both. Multiple sites I've tried for making a booster appointment make you choose a location and a day before they tell you "nope, no appointments available". That seems insane, but it also seems to be a pattern and I'm wondering if there are weird incentives that caused them to design it that way instead of telling you what is available.

egberts1 5y ago

LOL! You should check hospitals to see how many fully-vaccinated got checked into ER for Omicron. The admission rate of Omicron over Delta is like ten times worse but its severity is what only milder and much shorter ER visit.