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I've met Ross during my time at Princeton and he is a really genuine person, he is not trying to ruin anyone's life. This incident is the result of an uncharact
by Paul-E 5y ago
I've met Ross during my time at Princeton and he is a really genuine person, he is not trying to ruin anyone's life. This incident is the result of an uncharacteristic blind spot in empathy: a mistake.
I also have experience with the Princeton IRB on similar topics. The reality is that Princeton's IRB, and IRBs in general, are not equipped to deal with this sort of online research. IRBs were created as a reaction to unethical medical research, in particular the Tuskegee Syphilis Study [1]. My experience has been that the IRB has a greater expertise on medical and sociological studies. This leads the IRB to having a very narrow view of its remit in other domains. Unless humans are in a very literal way "subjects" of the study, then the IRB doesn't see it as human subjects research. In this case the IRB likely saw "Free Radical" and other websites as the subject. In both my studies and those done by my peers, the responses on what is and isn't human subjects research is uneven and you will often get a generic "this study does not constitute human subjects research" response from the IRB. This can be the case even if there possible negative repercussions to the "not subjects" in your research.
For example, say your study involves testing the vulnerability disclosure policies. How well do websites respond to vuln reports? In your study you send out 100 vulnerability disclosures. After you report these vulnerabilities, a human may read your vulnerability report and make a decision based on it. This presents a risk that the individual security team employees involved in your study will be scapegoated and fired when you publish your (potentially damning) results. How do you balance the value this study provides the public against the risk to the individual employees' livelihoods? The IRB isn't going to help you do this balancing, they will just say "this isn't human subjects research".
IRBs quite simply aren't equipped to evaluate this sort of research at the moment. This can be frustrating for a young twenty-something researcher just out of college trying to do the right thing while generating impactful research. You come in thinking that the IRB will be a guiding hand of wisdom and prudence, but you are quickly disabused of that notion after most of your interactions feel like conversations with lawyers in a compliance department. Many researchers in "CS" don't even involve the IRB, because they don't always see the ethical dimension of their work, but the fact that Ross did shows that he was trying to do the right thing here.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study
- vessenes 5y agoQuick meta-comment; this is useful and informative information about the original link - please don’t downvote because you disagree with the point of view. If you disagree, please add a comment and make HN a great place for discourse!
- wglb 5y agoDownvotes are ok to use to indicate and it has been so forever. Pg and others have supported this view
- kstrauser 5y agoI don’t doubt that Ross is a nice person, and I think he meant well. FWIW, I think this is a great thing to study and in other circumstances I’d be glad he’s doing it. But much as Ross didn’t intend for me to be hyperventilating, heart pounding as I imagine trying to explain to my wife how my little hobby is getting us sued, that’s exactly what happened. That was a whole awful lot of extra stress that I didn’t need.
- geofft 5y agoThe fact that Ross didn't mean to do this is all the more reason why someone - maybe an IRB, maybe not (your argument makes sense) - should be assisting 20-something researchers with having a well-informed perspective. In the absence of an organization that's good at this (which doesn't seem to exist and should), this probably should be the supervising professors.
- michaelhoffman 5y agoAs a research group leader, I find it unfortunate that the grad student seems to be the public face of this and is therefore attracting most of the ire. Feels like the student is being thrown under the bus, and responsibility for ensuring the study is conducted ethically should ultimately be that of the principal investigator.
- Paul-E 5y ago