12 ms·

Stuttering is not a disease and does not need a cure.

by _zh9y 5y ago

msla 5y ago
> Stuttering is not a disease and does not need a cure. I stutter. I honestly don't understand how you can come to that conclusion. I do not understand how something that makes it more difficult for me to talk is not a disease and should not be cured. I'm also autistic, and while I can see the arguments that autism opens doors as well as closing them in terms of giving me new ways to think that allistic people don't have, all stuttering does is close doors. I know what I want to say, I just can't get it out without exercising more care than other people.
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  A very close-minded perspective IMO. Human beings are complex systems molded by genetic evolution and environmental pressures, as well as culture and technology. Being "deficient" in one area nearly always confers a benefit in some other. If I were you I'd develop a personality that deals with the particulars of your existence in a positive and constructive way. So you stutter. That means your language and by extension thought is different and unique in a way most people couldn't even comprehend. What can you learn about the universe? What kind of system of thinking and self-expression will you develop that works around your bottlenecks and channels your strengths? > I do not understand how something that makes it more difficult for me to talk is not a disease and should not be cured. Consider, for example, games. A game that makes it more difficult for you to win is not a disease, does not need curing. It is a challenge that ultimately leads to self-improvement. Difficult challenges commonly begin with frustration and dejection; Neither of which will actually help you move forward. Figure out how to move forward, and you will discover your self along the way.
  - _skhan_ 5y ago
    So... if I have a handicap, I should look at it as an opportunity or challenge? I should just rise-up to the challenge? Yeah, well, if I don't have any options, then I'll make do. I really only see lack of empathy in your response. Stuttering is a handicap, plain and simple. Yes, some of us can live with it. It is debilitating and humiliating and if you do not suffer from it, I can't imagine how you can begin prescribing advice. You can have the universe, I just want to order some coffee (thank god for self-serve POS).
    - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
      Calling anything "plain and simple" is an admission of knowing nothing about the subject. Nothing in the universe is plain and simple. Every single mutation, trait and feature of every single human being who has ever been born can be thought of as a handicap. Classically, even being perfect is considered one. This is only a reflection of one's inability to play the damn game, instead adopting a victim mentality for pity points. When I went abroad and didn't speak a single word of the local language, I still managed to order coffee just fine by pointing my finger at what I wanted, and smiling. There is nothing debilitating nor humiliating about any of it. Grow up and develop a personality.
      - msla 5y ago
        > This is only a reflection of one's inability to play the damn game, instead adopting a victim mentality for pity points. My life isn't a game. Thanks for trying, but you're obviously unsuited to the task of having this discussion.
        hypertele-Xii 5y ago
        Maybe that's why you're suffering instead of enjoying it.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - ThrowawayR2 5y ago
    If disabilities were that good, people would be lining up to give themselves one. I am 10,000% "ableist" despite having a recognized disablity because having a disability effing sucks.
    - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
      Funny you should say that, because it's somewhat common for people to engage in self-ascribed challenges for self-improvement, including not speaking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vow_of_silence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vow_of_silence
  - oneoff786 5y ago
    > Being "deficient" in one area nearly always confers a benefit in some other. Not even close > Consider, for example, games. A game that makes it more difficult for you to win is not a disease, does not need curing. It is a challenge that ultimately leads to self-improvement. Difficult challenges commonly begin with frustration and dejection; Neither of which will actually help you move forward. Figure out how to move forward, and you will discover your self along the way. A game which increases the intensity of its challenges will make you better at the game. A game which randomly misinterprets your inputs will not.
    - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
      > A game which randomly misinterprets your inputs will not. You clearly know nothing about games. This specific kind of challenge (called 'output randomness') is widely employed in games and it absolutely makes you better at carefully considering what you're doing (because it might go wrong), making contingency plans (inevitably it will go wrong), efficient encoding of intent (maximize the outcome despite going wrong), and priorization (dedicate more effort to the important first). The results of getting better at this kind of thing can be seen in telecommunications, where the unreliability of links has required very smart people figure out how to communicate over them anyway. And our networks are more robust because of it.
      - oneoff786 5y ago
        Please enlighten me on the games that intentionally implement misinterpreting player inputs. Accusing me of knowing nothing about games is a pretty reckless claim. Think about how fucking stupid that kind of thing is to claim of a random stranger. Games aren’t even a niche subject area, “Output randomness”, as in, rolling a d20 to see how your attack goes is not remotely close conceptually to the idea of a game that intentionally misinterprets your controls. If you choose to attack, your attack might not succeed. But that’s not a good analogy for a disability. Those are the rules everybody plays by. A disability like a stutter would be you decide you want to attack but then the game decides you’re going to use a useless item instead.
- causi 5y ago
  People have a tendency to conflate adjectives with identity, and don't like it when that identity is threatened. Give it a couple of years and I expect to get messages on social media inviting me to join groups for people with persistent COVID anosmia, and a couple of years after that they'll raise hell if someone comes up with a cure for it. Blindness, deafness, paraplegia, nearly type of bodily non-function is now who you are instead of just something about you.
Lvl999Noob 5y ago
Try going on a stage in front of your whole school and be stuck on repeat saying a single syllable for over 5 minutes while your friends try to do something in the background so they aren't just standing and waiting. Stuttering might not be a disease but it definitely needs a cure.

Stuttering is not a disease and does not need a cure.

by _zh9y 5y ago

Stuttering is not a disease and does not need a cure.

msla 5y ago

> Stuttering is not a disease and does not need a cure. I stutter. I honestly don't understand how you can come to that conclusion. I do not understand how something that makes it more difficult for me to talk is not a disease and should not be cured. I'm also autistic, and while I can see the arguments that autism opens doors as well as closing them in terms of giving me new ways to think that allistic people don't have, all stuttering does is close doors. I know what I want to say, I just can't get it out without exercising more care than other people.

hypertele-Xii 5y ago
A very close-minded perspective IMO. Human beings are complex systems molded by genetic evolution and environmental pressures, as well as culture and technology. Being "deficient" in one area nearly always confers a benefit in some other. If I were you I'd develop a personality that deals with the particulars of your existence in a positive and constructive way. So you stutter. That means your language and by extension thought is different and unique in a way most people couldn't even comprehend. What can you learn about the universe? What kind of system of thinking and self-expression will you develop that works around your bottlenecks and channels your strengths? > I do not understand how something that makes it more difficult for me to talk is not a disease and should not be cured. Consider, for example, games. A game that makes it more difficult for you to win is not a disease, does not need curing. It is a challenge that ultimately leads to self-improvement. Difficult challenges commonly begin with frustration and dejection; Neither of which will actually help you move forward. Figure out how to move forward, and you will discover your self along the way.
- _skhan_ 5y ago
  So... if I have a handicap, I should look at it as an opportunity or challenge? I should just rise-up to the challenge? Yeah, well, if I don't have any options, then I'll make do. I really only see lack of empathy in your response. Stuttering is a handicap, plain and simple. Yes, some of us can live with it. It is debilitating and humiliating and if you do not suffer from it, I can't imagine how you can begin prescribing advice. You can have the universe, I just want to order some coffee (thank god for self-serve POS).
  - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    Calling anything "plain and simple" is an admission of knowing nothing about the subject. Nothing in the universe is plain and simple. Every single mutation, trait and feature of every single human being who has ever been born can be thought of as a handicap. Classically, even being perfect is considered one. This is only a reflection of one's inability to play the damn game, instead adopting a victim mentality for pity points. When I went abroad and didn't speak a single word of the local language, I still managed to order coffee just fine by pointing my finger at what I wanted, and smiling. There is nothing debilitating nor humiliating about any of it. Grow up and develop a personality.
    - msla 5y ago
      > This is only a reflection of one's inability to play the damn game, instead adopting a victim mentality for pity points. My life isn't a game. Thanks for trying, but you're obviously unsuited to the task of having this discussion.
      - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
        Maybe that's why you're suffering instead of enjoying it.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- ThrowawayR2 5y ago
  If disabilities were that good, people would be lining up to give themselves one. I am 10,000% "ableist" despite having a recognized disablity because having a disability effing sucks.
  - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    Funny you should say that, because it's somewhat common for people to engage in self-ascribed challenges for self-improvement, including not speaking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vow_of_silence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vow_of_silence
- oneoff786 5y ago
  > Being "deficient" in one area nearly always confers a benefit in some other. Not even close > Consider, for example, games. A game that makes it more difficult for you to win is not a disease, does not need curing. It is a challenge that ultimately leads to self-improvement. Difficult challenges commonly begin with frustration and dejection; Neither of which will actually help you move forward. Figure out how to move forward, and you will discover your self along the way. A game which increases the intensity of its challenges will make you better at the game. A game which randomly misinterprets your inputs will not.
  - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    > A game which randomly misinterprets your inputs will not. You clearly know nothing about games. This specific kind of challenge (called 'output randomness') is widely employed in games and it absolutely makes you better at carefully considering what you're doing (because it might go wrong), making contingency plans (inevitably it will go wrong), efficient encoding of intent (maximize the outcome despite going wrong), and priorization (dedicate more effort to the important first). The results of getting better at this kind of thing can be seen in telecommunications, where the unreliability of links has required very smart people figure out how to communicate over them anyway. And our networks are more robust because of it.
    - oneoff786 5y ago
      Please enlighten me on the games that intentionally implement misinterpreting player inputs. Accusing me of knowing nothing about games is a pretty reckless claim. Think about how fucking stupid that kind of thing is to claim of a random stranger. Games aren’t even a niche subject area, “Output randomness”, as in, rolling a d20 to see how your attack goes is not remotely close conceptually to the idea of a game that intentionally misinterprets your controls. If you choose to attack, your attack might not succeed. But that’s not a good analogy for a disability. Those are the rules everybody plays by. A disability like a stutter would be you decide you want to attack but then the game decides you’re going to use a useless item instead.
causi 5y ago
People have a tendency to conflate adjectives with identity, and don't like it when that identity is threatened. Give it a couple of years and I expect to get messages on social media inviting me to join groups for people with persistent COVID anosmia, and a couple of years after that they'll raise hell if someone comes up with a cure for it. Blindness, deafness, paraplegia, nearly type of bodily non-function is now who you are instead of just something about you.

Lvl999Noob 5y ago

Try going on a stage in front of your whole school and be stuck on repeat saying a single syllable for over 5 minutes while your friends try to do something in the background so they aren't just standing and waiting. Stuttering might not be a disease but it definitely needs a cure.