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Surely you don't expect people using keyboards without dedicated function keys (or number rows) are aiming to never need to use those keys? The trade-off from

Surely you don't expect people using keyboards without dedicated function keys (or number rows) are aiming to never need to use those keys? The trade-off from fewer keys is reduced hand movement (& a smaller keyboard, cheaper to buy switches for, etc.), at the cost of additional complexity of use, & it not really being easy for anyone else to use your keyboard. It seems reasonable either way to prefer one or the other. -- I suspect that most of the people enthusiastic about the smaller keyboard layouts are also into keyboard-driven workflows, and are developers who also frequently need to use the symbols accessed using layers.

avgcorrection 5y ago
> Surely you don't expect people using keyboards without dedicated function keys (or number rows) are aiming to never need to use those keys? I could imagine that some people never use the function keys. Or never use the numpad keys. To some people they might be completely useless... Which would make a smaller keyboard understandable. Now, people who do need all those keys and yet still go for a smaller keyboard is harder for me to understand. :) > The trade-off from fewer keys is reduced hand movement (& a smaller keyboard, cheaper to buy switches for, etc.), at the cost of additional complexity of use, & it not really being easy for anyone else to use your keyboard. The trade-offs seem a bit one-sided. Hand movements are not a big deal unless you are going constantly back and forth between the main part and the nav cluster or the numpad. And all of these custom keyboards with their 60%, 67.5%, etc. sizes are already so… boutique and expensive that I don’t think that people are forfeiting a dozen or so keys in order to save some money.
- rgoulter 5y ago
  > I could imagine that some people never use the function keys. Or never use the numpad keys. To some people they might be completely useless... Which would make a smaller keyboard understandable. > > Now, people who do need all those keys and yet still go for a smaller keyboard is harder for me to understand. :) Right, I don't think anyone goes "I need these keys, I should get a smaller keyboard". But, no one is saying "I don't need those keys, I can use a smaller keyboard". e.g. 40% keyboards like the planck lack a number row, as well as lacking a number pad; of course they'll have to have access to type in numbers somehow. > boutique and expensive that I don’t think that people are forfeiting a dozen or so keys in order to save some money. Right, I don't think it's a persuasive/compelling point; but it is a benefit. Comparing the cost of getting switches for 110-keys vs for 48 keys, you can either afford nicer keys, or don't have to pay as much.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    My conspiracy is that DIY keyboard builder want to solder less parts as possible.

avgcorrection 5y ago

> Surely you don't expect people using keyboards without dedicated function keys (or number rows) are aiming to never need to use those keys? I could imagine that some people never use the function keys. Or never use the numpad keys. To some people they might be completely useless... Which would make a smaller keyboard understandable. Now, people who do need all those keys and yet still go for a smaller keyboard is harder for me to understand. :) > The trade-off from fewer keys is reduced hand movement (& a smaller keyboard, cheaper to buy switches for, etc.), at the cost of additional complexity of use, & it not really being easy for anyone else to use your keyboard. The trade-offs seem a bit one-sided. Hand movements are not a big deal unless you are going constantly back and forth between the main part and the nav cluster or the numpad. And all of these custom keyboards with their 60%, 67.5%, etc. sizes are already so… boutique and expensive that I don’t think that people are forfeiting a dozen or so keys in order to save some money.

rgoulter 5y ago
> I could imagine that some people never use the function keys. Or never use the numpad keys. To some people they might be completely useless... Which would make a smaller keyboard understandable. > > Now, people who do need all those keys and yet still go for a smaller keyboard is harder for me to understand. :) Right, I don't think anyone goes "I need these keys, I should get a smaller keyboard". But, no one is saying "I don't need those keys, I can use a smaller keyboard". e.g. 40% keyboards like the planck lack a number row, as well as lacking a number pad; of course they'll have to have access to type in numbers somehow. > boutique and expensive that I don’t think that people are forfeiting a dozen or so keys in order to save some money. Right, I don't think it's a persuasive/compelling point; but it is a benefit. Comparing the cost of getting switches for 110-keys vs for 48 keys, you can either afford nicer keys, or don't have to pay as much.
- fomine3 5y ago
  My conspiracy is that DIY keyboard builder want to solder less parts as possible.