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With all due respect, the vast majority of us here took these tests. Do any of us remember them containing quizzes on obscure aspects of water polo and equestri

With all due respect, the vast majority of us here took these tests. Do any of us remember them containing quizzes on obscure aspects of water polo and equestrianism and sailing jargon, or other things that only rich kids would know about? I remember them being fairly self-contained. And that's just the reading comprehension. The idea that the math word problems involve cultural bias that would affect performance is utterly ridiculous. "Most studies"... there is no chance that any quality research has been done to support something so laughable. I will look at any citations you may have, but I am 100% confident that you have been duped.

jedberg 5y ago
Here is the main study from 2003: https://meridian.allenpress.com/her/article-abstract/73/1/1/31807/Correcting-the-SAT-s-Ethnic-and-Social-Class-Bias https://meridian.allenpress.com/her/article-abstract/73/1/1/... That 2003 study was done at Harvard. Here is a writeup of someone who replicated it with more recent test scores: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/06/21/new-evidence-racial-bias-sat https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/06/21/new-evidence-...
- hcurtiss 5y ago
  "The SAT has been shown to be both culturally and statistically biased against . . . Asian Americans." Well, I'll be damned. Huh.
- civilized 5y ago
  From the second article: > The 2003 study and this year's found no DIF issues in the mathematics section. The earlier claim about math word problems being culturally biased seems unsupported by the citations. But will the claim be withdrawn? Hmm, let's find out...
jedberg 5y ago
Here is a simple example from an old SAT (1970s): Runner is to Marathon as XXXXXXXX is to Regatta If you grew up on the coast in a wealthy family, you have a much higher chance of knowing what a Regatta is and that it involves boat races.
- allturtles 5y ago
  Is there a more up-to-date example? The SAT hasn't even had an analogy section at all since 2005.
- garbagecoder 5y ago
  Yes, only wealthy people know what a sailboat is and have a large vocabulary.
  - jedberg 5y ago
    It doesn't say only wealthy people will know what it is, it says they are much more likely to know what it is because they are much more likely to have experienced it first hand. It would be hard to deny that generally sailboat racing is done by wealthy people.
    - garbagecoder 5y ago
      That doesn’t follow. Poor people are aware of many things they don’t do. You’re wanting to lower standards to help people who don’t need that kind of help to expiate you own status guilt. Poor people may also not have cars. Or have ever flown on a plane or owned an iPhone. But they aren’t necessarily stupid and will probably know what these things are and if they happen to be then they should go to elite colleges.
- 8note 5y ago
  That is dependent on where you're from, you could be from a poor family and know exactly what a regatta is. The yearly regatta has always been like the Olympics of Newfoundland
  - brewdad 5y ago
    OTOH, You could be wealthy but from Montana. You probably have never witnessed a regatta in your life. You and your wealthy friends will probably be able to answer every question related to a ski holiday however.
- 5y ago
lawrenceyan 5y ago
To be completely fair, I think at least some portions of the SAT are distinctly more difficult without a strong reading background. You can definitely cram for the grammar / math portions, but the reading comprehension sort of just requires a lot of reading experience. There isn't a rote set of things you can memorize to get a high score, which could arguably be seen as good or bad. Maybe more practically, we should consider: Do lower income students read less on average? And if so, is the difference greater than their ability to gain access to tutoring services / prep books which can be used for the crammable portions of the exam?
- usaar333 5y ago
  Succeeding in college also requires a strong reading background. The point of the test is to predict college success, not "be fair" (an inherently subjective statement)
- civilized 5y ago
  This theory would make sense if the hardest questions showed the most racial disparity, but it's actually the easiest questions that do, according to the papers cited by jedberg.
AvocadoPanic 5y ago
Biased against cultures that don't value competence / excellence in mathematics.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

jedberg 5y ago

Here is the main study from 2003: https://meridian.allenpress.com/her/article-abstract/73/1/1/31807/Correcting-the-SAT-s-Ethnic-and-Social-Class-Bias https://meridian.allenpress.com/her/article-abstract/73/1/1/... That 2003 study was done at Harvard. Here is a writeup of someone who replicated it with more recent test scores: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/06/21/new-evidence-racial-bias-sat https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2010/06/21/new-evidence-...

hcurtiss 5y ago
"The SAT has been shown to be both culturally and statistically biased against . . . Asian Americans." Well, I'll be damned. Huh.
civilized 5y ago
From the second article: > The 2003 study and this year's found no DIF issues in the mathematics section. The earlier claim about math word problems being culturally biased seems unsupported by the citations. But will the claim be withdrawn? Hmm, let's find out...

jedberg 5y ago

Here is a simple example from an old SAT (1970s): Runner is to Marathon as XXXXXXXX is to Regatta If you grew up on the coast in a wealthy family, you have a much higher chance of knowing what a Regatta is and that it involves boat races.

allturtles 5y ago
Is there a more up-to-date example? The SAT hasn't even had an analogy section at all since 2005.
garbagecoder 5y ago
Yes, only wealthy people know what a sailboat is and have a large vocabulary.
- jedberg 5y ago
  It doesn't say only wealthy people will know what it is, it says they are much more likely to know what it is because they are much more likely to have experienced it first hand. It would be hard to deny that generally sailboat racing is done by wealthy people.
  - garbagecoder 5y ago
    That doesn’t follow. Poor people are aware of many things they don’t do. You’re wanting to lower standards to help people who don’t need that kind of help to expiate you own status guilt. Poor people may also not have cars. Or have ever flown on a plane or owned an iPhone. But they aren’t necessarily stupid and will probably know what these things are and if they happen to be then they should go to elite colleges.
8note 5y ago
That is dependent on where you're from, you could be from a poor family and know exactly what a regatta is. The yearly regatta has always been like the Olympics of Newfoundland
- brewdad 5y ago
  OTOH, You could be wealthy but from Montana. You probably have never witnessed a regatta in your life. You and your wealthy friends will probably be able to answer every question related to a ski holiday however.
5y ago

lawrenceyan 5y ago

To be completely fair, I think at least some portions of the SAT are distinctly more difficult without a strong reading background. You can definitely cram for the grammar / math portions, but the reading comprehension sort of just requires a lot of reading experience. There isn't a rote set of things you can memorize to get a high score, which could arguably be seen as good or bad. Maybe more practically, we should consider: Do lower income students read less on average? And if so, is the difference greater than their ability to gain access to tutoring services / prep books which can be used for the crammable portions of the exam?

usaar333 5y ago
Succeeding in college also requires a strong reading background. The point of the test is to predict college success, not "be fair" (an inherently subjective statement)
civilized 5y ago
This theory would make sense if the hardest questions showed the most racial disparity, but it's actually the easiest questions that do, according to the papers cited by jedberg.

AvocadoPanic 5y ago

Biased against cultures that don't value competence / excellence in mathematics.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]