6 ms·

I note how your comment has been largely ignored by... the massive numbers of Facebook and Google employees reading this site. If there was an ounce of integri

I note how your comment has been largely ignored by... the massive numbers of Facebook and Google employees reading this site. If there was an ounce of integrity in Tech these days, this would have been called out, front-and-centre, and remedies to it would have been enacted. Instead, here we are almost two years later, and we're pretending that never happened. In some cases it's even being memory-holed. I predict within 4 years, it will be common to call someone pointing this out some sort of rabid conspiracy theorist. You cannot trust FB. You cannot trust Google. You cannot trust mainstream newspapers. You cannot trust the CDC. They got caught lying to you. Repeatedly. Obey at your peril.

aqfamnzc 5y ago
What did the CDC lie about? (Honest question)
- satellite2 5y ago
  About the efficacy of masks. They said they were not efficace to avoid hoarding and to reserve the small existing stock for medical professionals.
  - mitigating 5y ago
    A lie is intentional. I'm not saying this is the case here because I haven't checked but if they believed that masks weren't effective then later changed their view because of new information or whatever that's not lying.
    - satellite2 5y ago
      As a scientific organisation the public expect them to have opinions that are supported by data. Already, today appealing to the autority argument while data are widely accessible is graceless. But abusing your expert position is outright deceitful. A scientific should be able to say that they don't have enough information to form a position. I think medicine more widely is in crisis as they still have not incorporated the digital transformation. And that can be seen even at your local doctor level. The patients are very informed (and often wrongly) and are coming to the appointment with a lot of data. A lot of doctors simply brush off those concern and go about with their standard diagnostic process. What patients expect is that the doctor take their proposition at face value, congratulate them for listing their symptoms and coming with a lead, and repeat the process with them, pinpointing the eventual inconsisencies in the symptoms or simply offering them another diagnostic that is also compatible but statistically more probable. That's the behaviour of the new expert, enjoy sharing informations and discussing them.
- freebuju 5y ago
  Am sure you can find plenty when you go down this rabbit hole but you can start here: https://twitter.com/us_fda/status/1429050070243192839 https://twitter.com/us_fda/status/1429050070243192839
  - philovivero 5y ago
    Thanks for trying to help out, but that's the FDA, not CDC. And this is a much murkier situation. Ivermectin does seem to help Covid, but it looks like that's correlation, not causation. Astral Codex Ten has a great writeup on this, and a big controversial debate with the ivermectin crowd. It's pretty glorious, and I do recommend reading it in its entirety. If you do want to call this a lie, I suppose I could see it. Someone claims something helps Covid, but it shouldn't, because it doesn't make sense, so instead of trusting the studies, they go out making a bold claim like this, that ivermectin is completely ineffective. In any case, this does reduce trust in those agencies, when they ignore science and instead spout off politically-expedient dismissals of data. But I wouldn't call it lying, really.
    - freebuju 5y ago
      You are right. Had a brain fart moment there. Still a good place to check as some of these official statements from the two leading public health bodies communicate the agreed-upon response to the disease. On Astral Codex Ten's piece, I assume you are talking about this one [0] The whole piece is such a doosie. Am almost sure 90%+ of the non-core audiences that landed on the page never scrolled to the end. If you are going to debunk a controversial subject, KISS. Not to say he didn't do a good job at poring through the numerous inconsistent data and studies carried out on the possibility of use of ivermectin for treatment. But am sure I came across some of his material on the interwebs. Back to the source material of this post, FDA were completely malicious by tweeting that. Their linked post even goes to mention that taking ivermectin could be lethal for you. What happens when the body whose sole job is to be the arbiter of truth and science regarding safety of drugs knowingly makes obviously dubious false verifiable claims? They are either knowingly participating in a lie or they are incompetent. [0] https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-than-you-wanted https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-t...
- notsureaboutpg 5y ago
  During the early days of the pandemic the CDC discouraged mask wearing, saying that it increased the need to touch one's face and that would increase transmission of COVID. This turned out not to be true, and they said they disseminated this information to avoid a run on masks and a shortage of PPE for medical settings / essential services. This is how I remember it. May be wrong
mitigating 5y ago
". You cannot trust mainstream newspapers. " Which newspapers can you trust?
- philovivero 5y ago
  It used to be a pretty short list, like NYT and Washington Post. But since the Trump era... honestly? None of them. I am literally unaware of a single mainstream television station, newspaper, or magazine that hasn't been caught in blatant politically-motivated lying. My rule-of-thumb for news sources is: I need to see zero lies for at least two years before I trust them again. This is different than mistakes which are immediately and prominently corrected with front-page stories as big and bold as the original mistaken story. I'm unaware of any currently mainstream TV/newspaper/magazine that ever retracts their "mistakes" anywhere close to this standard as well. Hence, the lack of trust.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > It used to be a pretty short list, like NYT and Washington Post. I opened a post here the other day (or yesterday?), intending to reply along the lines of "Oh look, the New York Post -- the new 'paper of record', together with the Washington Times!", but by the time I was ready to start snarking, the post was dead.
  - mitigating 5y ago
    So where do you get your information? If newspapers can/will lie isn't that also possible with your source now? Every newspaper is going to "lie" once in a while, there are independent people who write articles. What's important is reputation. The New York Times has been around since 1851. How many truthful articles have they written vs how many were misinformation or biased? Since the longer a news source exists the more likely it would have lied you will only trust recent news sources? Like if I made a news website then published some random article and sent it to you, I've never lied before but I have 0 reputation are you going to believe me? That seems like an easy thing to exploit if I was evil I could just keep creating random news websites and you'll trust them. If one is ever caught lying I'll just shut it down and make a new one. However how many "lies" will you believe until I'm caught.

aqfamnzc 5y ago

What did the CDC lie about? (Honest question)

satellite2 5y ago
About the efficacy of masks. They said they were not efficace to avoid hoarding and to reserve the small existing stock for medical professionals.
- mitigating 5y ago
  A lie is intentional. I'm not saying this is the case here because I haven't checked but if they believed that masks weren't effective then later changed their view because of new information or whatever that's not lying.
  - satellite2 5y ago
    As a scientific organisation the public expect them to have opinions that are supported by data. Already, today appealing to the autority argument while data are widely accessible is graceless. But abusing your expert position is outright deceitful. A scientific should be able to say that they don't have enough information to form a position. I think medicine more widely is in crisis as they still have not incorporated the digital transformation. And that can be seen even at your local doctor level. The patients are very informed (and often wrongly) and are coming to the appointment with a lot of data. A lot of doctors simply brush off those concern and go about with their standard diagnostic process. What patients expect is that the doctor take their proposition at face value, congratulate them for listing their symptoms and coming with a lead, and repeat the process with them, pinpointing the eventual inconsisencies in the symptoms or simply offering them another diagnostic that is also compatible but statistically more probable. That's the behaviour of the new expert, enjoy sharing informations and discussing them.
freebuju 5y ago
Am sure you can find plenty when you go down this rabbit hole but you can start here: https://twitter.com/us_fda/status/1429050070243192839 https://twitter.com/us_fda/status/1429050070243192839
- philovivero 5y ago
  Thanks for trying to help out, but that's the FDA, not CDC. And this is a much murkier situation. Ivermectin does seem to help Covid, but it looks like that's correlation, not causation. Astral Codex Ten has a great writeup on this, and a big controversial debate with the ivermectin crowd. It's pretty glorious, and I do recommend reading it in its entirety. If you do want to call this a lie, I suppose I could see it. Someone claims something helps Covid, but it shouldn't, because it doesn't make sense, so instead of trusting the studies, they go out making a bold claim like this, that ivermectin is completely ineffective. In any case, this does reduce trust in those agencies, when they ignore science and instead spout off politically-expedient dismissals of data. But I wouldn't call it lying, really.
  - freebuju 5y ago
    You are right. Had a brain fart moment there. Still a good place to check as some of these official statements from the two leading public health bodies communicate the agreed-upon response to the disease. On Astral Codex Ten's piece, I assume you are talking about this one [0] The whole piece is such a doosie. Am almost sure 90%+ of the non-core audiences that landed on the page never scrolled to the end. If you are going to debunk a controversial subject, KISS. Not to say he didn't do a good job at poring through the numerous inconsistent data and studies carried out on the possibility of use of ivermectin for treatment. But am sure I came across some of his material on the interwebs. Back to the source material of this post, FDA were completely malicious by tweeting that. Their linked post even goes to mention that taking ivermectin could be lethal for you. What happens when the body whose sole job is to be the arbiter of truth and science regarding safety of drugs knowingly makes obviously dubious false verifiable claims? They are either knowingly participating in a lie or they are incompetent. [0] https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-than-you-wanted https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/ivermectin-much-more-t...
notsureaboutpg 5y ago
During the early days of the pandemic the CDC discouraged mask wearing, saying that it increased the need to touch one's face and that would increase transmission of COVID. This turned out not to be true, and they said they disseminated this information to avoid a run on masks and a shortage of PPE for medical settings / essential services. This is how I remember it. May be wrong

mitigating 5y ago

". You cannot trust mainstream newspapers. " Which newspapers can you trust?

philovivero 5y ago
It used to be a pretty short list, like NYT and Washington Post. But since the Trump era... honestly? None of them. I am literally unaware of a single mainstream television station, newspaper, or magazine that hasn't been caught in blatant politically-motivated lying. My rule-of-thumb for news sources is: I need to see zero lies for at least two years before I trust them again. This is different than mistakes which are immediately and prominently corrected with front-page stories as big and bold as the original mistaken story. I'm unaware of any currently mainstream TV/newspaper/magazine that ever retracts their "mistakes" anywhere close to this standard as well. Hence, the lack of trust.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > It used to be a pretty short list, like NYT and Washington Post. I opened a post here the other day (or yesterday?), intending to reply along the lines of "Oh look, the New York Post -- the new 'paper of record', together with the Washington Times!", but by the time I was ready to start snarking, the post was dead.
- mitigating 5y ago
  So where do you get your information? If newspapers can/will lie isn't that also possible with your source now? Every newspaper is going to "lie" once in a while, there are independent people who write articles. What's important is reputation. The New York Times has been around since 1851. How many truthful articles have they written vs how many were misinformation or biased? Since the longer a news source exists the more likely it would have lied you will only trust recent news sources? Like if I made a news website then published some random article and sent it to you, I've never lied before but I have 0 reputation are you going to believe me? That seems like an easy thing to exploit if I was evil I could just keep creating random news websites and you'll trust them. If one is ever caught lying I'll just shut it down and make a new one. However how many "lies" will you believe until I'm caught.