5 ms·

I didn’t go to Harvard, but I went to a decent university. I was one of those students who got perfectly scores on all my tests but couldn’t possibly be bother

I didn’t go to Harvard, but I went to a decent university. I was one of those students who got perfectly scores on all my tests but couldn’t possibly be bothered to do homework in high school, so my grades were less than perfect. If it weren’t for my high ACT score, I’m pretty confident I wouldn’t have been accepted into any university—especially as someone from a lower middle class family. I’m not sure if eliminating standardized testing is a misguided effort to introduce fairness or a wisely guided effort to only let in the types they want through a more opaque process.

chrisseaton 5y ago
Why could you be bothered to work hard on your tests but not your homework? I don't get the difference?
- forgotmyoldname 5y ago
  Homework was several hours per night of busy work. I learned nothing from it. I spent that time teaching myself programming and things that were actually useful. For tests, simply paying attention and listening to what the teacher said was enough to do well. For many people, homework is completely useless and many US schools absolutely love overwhelming students with it. There are also kids who need to work jobs after work to support their family--busy work assignments are just punishment for them, and countless people I know suffered because of that. The ACT/SAT was a way for them to elevate themselves.
  - andrew_ 5y ago
    Weighing in to say; same exact experience here.
  - Auracle 5y ago
    The only thing I learned from the Aeneid diorama in my “Honors” English class in 9th grade was that a teacher could mark down a cave for not being colorful enough.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
slg 5y ago
I'm picking on you specifically because a lot of people are making this mistake. "Not requiring" is not the same as "eliminating". Not submitting scores will no longer be a reason someone is rejected. Someone who did well on them can still submit them and it will help their application.
- PaulMest 5y ago
  I haven't followed this closely, but have seen a few headlines and tweets in passing. This is the first I've heard that people can optionally add test scores to help them stand out. Thanks for highlighting this.
- pc86 5y ago
  I don't see how this can work in practice. At some point, you'll have an application with an SAT go up against an application without one for the same seat. Either a really good SAT score will push that one up (meaning not submitting an SAT score hurts application #2) or the score is ignored, meaning it doesn't actually help to include it.
  - lazyasciiart 5y ago
    Exaggerating here for ease of description: it used to be that if you had 2 spots and these 3 applicants - applicant A: average grades, average SAT, no sports - applicant B: great grades, no SAT, great sports - applicant C: great grades, great SAT, great sports then B wasn't even considered. Now, B will probably get in over A.
  - unclebucknasty 5y ago
    >I don't see how this can work in practice. That's because the admissions process is not the line-by-line ranking exercise you're implying. In some cases an SAT may help to complete the picture of an applicant. In other cases, other attribute permutations are enough. Maybe #1 was close and the SAT sealed it. But, it's not necessarily the case that applicant #2 was hurt by not submitting their SAT (or would have fared any better by submitting even a perfect SAT score).
vex 5y ago
Same. I had a troubled childhood and many D's in high school. If it wasn't for me studying really hard and getting a 2320 on the SAT, I wouldn't have gotten into any school, but that was enough for UCLA to take a chance on me.
Spooky23 5y ago
The dirty little secret is that most of the admissions hoops don’t really matter. I was a mere peasant at a SUNY school, but I tutored kids in the EOP program. These kids were mostly from awful high schools and had aptitude, but lacked a lot of basic high school skills. Just like my friends from “normal” educational backgrounds, the kids who worked did fine. Most were boxed out of engineering but I know of a few alumni who are attorneys or have other professional gigs.
- jollybean 5y ago
  "but lacked a lot of basic high school skills." If you back basic high school skills then you're not only probably not suited to Engineering, you're also probably not going to cut it. It takes 'Aptitude' plus at very least skills plus even more.
  - tubby12345 5y ago
    >If you back basic high school skills then you're not only probably not suited to Engineering, you're also probably not going to cut it. Quiet part aloud right here. What you're saying is that if you haven't been raised in a certain way (in an environment that prioritizes formal schooling) then you're not fit to be a professional (engineer in this case) no matter how smart/talented. There's a word for this: classicism. But I'll tell you something. As someone who grew up exactly like that but is now getting a PhD in CS at a top school and who has excelled in several FAANG internships: you can teach/learn high school skills. You can't teach/learn aptitude though. So if you think it's some kind just/effective/correct that these kids are kept out (just because they don't have good essay writing skills or something) well I have to wonder if you're just someone trying to keep the labor pool small to inflate your own salary (or for other reasons...)
    - jollybean 5y ago
      You can definitely teach 'conscientiousness' and the 'basic high school skills'. You can't teach 'aptitude' but I think you can encourage those things i.e. reading, curiosity, exposure. You're right though that rich kids probably have a huge advantage in prep for Eng in terms of the former, but whether or not you call it 'classist' is besides the point: teaching your kids to show up to class and pay attention, do homework etc. is not something that costs money (of course it can help). "So if you think it's some kind just/effective/correct that these kids are kept out (just because they don't have good essay writing skills or something) well I have to wonder if you're just someone trying to keep the labor pool small to inflate your own salary (or for other reasons...)" For a PhD you're having an odd bit difficulty with leaps of unsubstantiated assumptions, because there's definitely nothing in my statement that would remotely hint about 'What I'm trying to do' about anything. I mean seriously, "I'm trying to keep the labour pool small?" What?

chrisseaton 5y ago

Why could you be bothered to work hard on your tests but not your homework? I don't get the difference?

forgotmyoldname 5y ago
Homework was several hours per night of busy work. I learned nothing from it. I spent that time teaching myself programming and things that were actually useful. For tests, simply paying attention and listening to what the teacher said was enough to do well. For many people, homework is completely useless and many US schools absolutely love overwhelming students with it. There are also kids who need to work jobs after work to support their family--busy work assignments are just punishment for them, and countless people I know suffered because of that. The ACT/SAT was a way for them to elevate themselves.
- andrew_ 5y ago
  Weighing in to say; same exact experience here.
- Auracle 5y ago
  The only thing I learned from the Aeneid diorama in my “Honors” English class in 9th grade was that a teacher could mark down a cave for not being colorful enough.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

slg 5y ago

I'm picking on you specifically because a lot of people are making this mistake. "Not requiring" is not the same as "eliminating". Not submitting scores will no longer be a reason someone is rejected. Someone who did well on them can still submit them and it will help their application.

PaulMest 5y ago
I haven't followed this closely, but have seen a few headlines and tweets in passing. This is the first I've heard that people can optionally add test scores to help them stand out. Thanks for highlighting this.
pc86 5y ago
I don't see how this can work in practice. At some point, you'll have an application with an SAT go up against an application without one for the same seat. Either a really good SAT score will push that one up (meaning not submitting an SAT score hurts application #2) or the score is ignored, meaning it doesn't actually help to include it.
- lazyasciiart 5y ago
  Exaggerating here for ease of description: it used to be that if you had 2 spots and these 3 applicants - applicant A: average grades, average SAT, no sports - applicant B: great grades, no SAT, great sports - applicant C: great grades, great SAT, great sports then B wasn't even considered. Now, B will probably get in over A.
- unclebucknasty 5y ago
  >I don't see how this can work in practice. That's because the admissions process is not the line-by-line ranking exercise you're implying. In some cases an SAT may help to complete the picture of an applicant. In other cases, other attribute permutations are enough. Maybe #1 was close and the SAT sealed it. But, it's not necessarily the case that applicant #2 was hurt by not submitting their SAT (or would have fared any better by submitting even a perfect SAT score).

vex 5y ago

Same. I had a troubled childhood and many D's in high school. If it wasn't for me studying really hard and getting a 2320 on the SAT, I wouldn't have gotten into any school, but that was enough for UCLA to take a chance on me.

Spooky23 5y ago

The dirty little secret is that most of the admissions hoops don’t really matter. I was a mere peasant at a SUNY school, but I tutored kids in the EOP program. These kids were mostly from awful high schools and had aptitude, but lacked a lot of basic high school skills. Just like my friends from “normal” educational backgrounds, the kids who worked did fine. Most were boxed out of engineering but I know of a few alumni who are attorneys or have other professional gigs.

jollybean 5y ago
"but lacked a lot of basic high school skills." If you back basic high school skills then you're not only probably not suited to Engineering, you're also probably not going to cut it. It takes 'Aptitude' plus at very least skills plus even more.
- tubby12345 5y ago
  >If you back basic high school skills then you're not only probably not suited to Engineering, you're also probably not going to cut it. Quiet part aloud right here. What you're saying is that if you haven't been raised in a certain way (in an environment that prioritizes formal schooling) then you're not fit to be a professional (engineer in this case) no matter how smart/talented. There's a word for this: classicism. But I'll tell you something. As someone who grew up exactly like that but is now getting a PhD in CS at a top school and who has excelled in several FAANG internships: you can teach/learn high school skills. You can't teach/learn aptitude though. So if you think it's some kind just/effective/correct that these kids are kept out (just because they don't have good essay writing skills or something) well I have to wonder if you're just someone trying to keep the labor pool small to inflate your own salary (or for other reasons...)
  - jollybean 5y ago
    You can definitely teach 'conscientiousness' and the 'basic high school skills'. You can't teach 'aptitude' but I think you can encourage those things i.e. reading, curiosity, exposure. You're right though that rich kids probably have a huge advantage in prep for Eng in terms of the former, but whether or not you call it 'classist' is besides the point: teaching your kids to show up to class and pay attention, do homework etc. is not something that costs money (of course it can help). "So if you think it's some kind just/effective/correct that these kids are kept out (just because they don't have good essay writing skills or something) well I have to wonder if you're just someone trying to keep the labor pool small to inflate your own salary (or for other reasons...)" For a PhD you're having an odd bit difficulty with leaps of unsubstantiated assumptions, because there's definitely nothing in my statement that would remotely hint about 'What I'm trying to do' about anything. I mean seriously, "I'm trying to keep the labour pool small?" What?