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There was a London West End musical life of Leonardo Da Vinci which the critics hated, partly because it featured a fictional female love interest when Leonardo

by w0mbat 5y ago

There was a London West End musical life of Leonardo Da Vinci which the critics hated, partly because it featured a fictional female love interest when Leonardo is generally believed to have been gay. It was financed by the island nation of Nauru using proceeds from its guano fertilizer business, prompting every critic to say they had found a way to turn crap into crap. My Dad told me about another West End disaster called "Fire Angel". Every West End theatre has little signage areas out front where they put press quotes about the show. Even with a terrible show they can always quote critics saying something positive, even if it's only about one song or one actor. However, no review said anything good about the show, so the signs all had snippets like "Fire Angel is a musical" - The Times.

koolba 5y ago
> Even with a terrible show they can always quote critics saying something positive… Many years ago when movie times and reviews were posted in newspapers, I recall seeing a print ad for a movie that had the quote “X is like a beach vacation…”. The movie was beyond terrible and I was curious of the source so I dug up the actual review. The full line was: “X is like a beach vacation, except you’re not invited.”
- m3kw9 5y ago
  Review “..opposite of awesome”, Movie “awesome”
- iainmerrick 5y ago
  Reminds me of this cleverly-placed two-star review in a movie poster: https://web.archive.org/web/20150909082602/https://twitter.com/benfraserlee/status/641368752798306304 https://web.archive.org/web/20150909082602/https://twitter.c...
  - koolba 5y ago
    I’d hire the graphic artist that put that together instantly.
  - kaetemi 5y ago
    That is brilliant.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
AnotherGoodName 5y ago
They can't make a musical but a musical about Nauru itself has potential. A tiny island nation 5km in diameter that somehow survived WW2 despite being the site of many battles and for a brief point in history was the wealthiest nation per capita thanks to bird poo. Their government proceeded to squander the wealth and today the only industry is as a prison for Australia's pacific solution.
robbedpeter 5y ago
Just to throw this out there, there's nothing to the proposition that Da Vinci was gay. There's a handful of comments in his personal writings regarding sexuality, and they're humorous or dry, with a sense of disdain for sex. Unsurprisingly, Freud is responsible for some of the first suggestions of homosexuality, extrapolating from Da Vinci's writings in ways that aren't founded. Everything was phallic for Freud. There was a single contemporary anonymous accusation of sodomy, but such accusations were like shitposting, and Da Vinci was prominent in public, and close to people that drew harassment. The available evidence would suggest that he was celibate with an ascetic view towards sex, but even that conclusion is shaky at best. If he was gay, then it was obviously private or suppressed, but so would any heterosexual relationships have been. Projecting sexuality into his character is an interesting thought experiment, but there's not enough to really tell. Without a direct communication by an individual, or some form of historical evidence, the sexuality talk amounts to gossip, in my opinion. Da Vinci deserves more respect than that. The single solid conclusion you can derive from all of the evidence is that he kept his sexuality extremely private. To be clear, I speak from a heart of no judgment or discrimination over sexuality, understanding the persecution and vile nonsense accompanying the catholic culture of Italy at the time. I simply think that speculation detracts from the genius of what he did leave for history. It could be that I'm mistaken, but it seems tawdry and a bit self serving when assumptions like this are made, but I'm willing to entertain opposing views. My opinion is that privacy should be respected, even that of the long dead.
- leephillips 5y ago
  Excellent and measured comment. There is also the consideration that discussing what we now would call the “sexual orientation” of men at that place and time is ahisotrical: “Renaissance society did not have the concept of firm sexual orientation that exists today and many men were in practice bisexual.”: https://www.historyextra.com/period/renaissance/leonardo-da-vinci-relationship-salai-sexuality-evidence/ https://www.historyextra.com/period/renaissance/leonardo-da-...

by w0mbat 5y ago

koolba 5y ago

> Even with a terrible show they can always quote critics saying something positive… Many years ago when movie times and reviews were posted in newspapers, I recall seeing a print ad for a movie that had the quote “X is like a beach vacation…”. The movie was beyond terrible and I was curious of the source so I dug up the actual review. The full line was: “X is like a beach vacation, except you’re not invited.”

m3kw9 5y ago
Review “..opposite of awesome”, Movie “awesome”
iainmerrick 5y ago
Reminds me of this cleverly-placed two-star review in a movie poster: https://web.archive.org/web/20150909082602/https://twitter.com/benfraserlee/status/641368752798306304 https://web.archive.org/web/20150909082602/https://twitter.c...
- koolba 5y ago
  I’d hire the graphic artist that put that together instantly.
- kaetemi 5y ago
  That is brilliant.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

AnotherGoodName 5y ago

They can't make a musical but a musical about Nauru itself has potential. A tiny island nation 5km in diameter that somehow survived WW2 despite being the site of many battles and for a brief point in history was the wealthiest nation per capita thanks to bird poo. Their government proceeded to squander the wealth and today the only industry is as a prison for Australia's pacific solution.

robbedpeter 5y ago

Just to throw this out there, there's nothing to the proposition that Da Vinci was gay. There's a handful of comments in his personal writings regarding sexuality, and they're humorous or dry, with a sense of disdain for sex. Unsurprisingly, Freud is responsible for some of the first suggestions of homosexuality, extrapolating from Da Vinci's writings in ways that aren't founded. Everything was phallic for Freud. There was a single contemporary anonymous accusation of sodomy, but such accusations were like shitposting, and Da Vinci was prominent in public, and close to people that drew harassment. The available evidence would suggest that he was celibate with an ascetic view towards sex, but even that conclusion is shaky at best. If he was gay, then it was obviously private or suppressed, but so would any heterosexual relationships have been. Projecting sexuality into his character is an interesting thought experiment, but there's not enough to really tell. Without a direct communication by an individual, or some form of historical evidence, the sexuality talk amounts to gossip, in my opinion. Da Vinci deserves more respect than that. The single solid conclusion you can derive from all of the evidence is that he kept his sexuality extremely private. To be clear, I speak from a heart of no judgment or discrimination over sexuality, understanding the persecution and vile nonsense accompanying the catholic culture of Italy at the time. I simply think that speculation detracts from the genius of what he did leave for history. It could be that I'm mistaken, but it seems tawdry and a bit self serving when assumptions like this are made, but I'm willing to entertain opposing views. My opinion is that privacy should be respected, even that of the long dead.

leephillips 5y ago
Excellent and measured comment. There is also the consideration that discussing what we now would call the “sexual orientation” of men at that place and time is ahisotrical: “Renaissance society did not have the concept of firm sexual orientation that exists today and many men were in practice bisexual.”: https://www.historyextra.com/period/renaissance/leonardo-da-vinci-relationship-salai-sexuality-evidence/ https://www.historyextra.com/period/renaissance/leonardo-da-...