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Thousands of people die every year because of human errors. Do you think this should continue forever? If not how do suggest we create software without testing

Thousands of people die every year because of human errors. Do you think this should continue forever? If not how do suggest we create software without testing it in real world conditions with a safety driver who can monitor and take over at any time? Do you know how many people have died because they had a medical emergency while driving? Do you think that should continue forever?

0_____0 5y ago
If you actually want to save lives, you might start at the top. Driving is hazardous for operators and for bystanders, and kills 40,000 people in the US alone every year. Build cities such that the majority of people don't need or want to drive, and viola, you're saving lives. And the tens or hundreds of billions of dollars worth of human effort and engineering put towards making cars that drive themselves can go to something else.
- Retric 5y ago
  Most deaths from driving occur outside of cities.
  - 0_____0 5y ago
    could you clarify what you mean by 'outside of cities?'
    - simondotau 5y ago
      It would probably be more accurate to say ‘outside of city streets.’ The threat of death tends to scale with vehicle speed.
- maxdo 5y ago
  a very good joke, what's your estimate to rebuild every city and road in the world lol. Billions of dollars it's a very tiny small fraction of this money.
  - 0_____0 5y ago
    It's a matter of priority. Many people have this concept of Amsterdam and Utrecht as having forever been a cycling paradise, but the reality is that they were choked with cars and smog until the 70s. The political will existed to prioritize non-automotive modalities, and a few decades later you have what we see today.
davewritescode 5y ago
I think testing these systems on public roads is 100% reasonable if we all have open access to data. I’m not talking about raw driving data, but aggregate metrics about how well the system is operating and limitations are clearly communicated. Selling a customer a car with a “full self driving” feature while burying the actual functionality in a legal agreement displayed on screen in the vehicle.
- simondotau 5y ago
  That misrepresents how Tesla sells FSD. The actual current functionality is shown in clear bullet points at the time of sale. It is not buried in a legal agreement.
  - clouddrover 5y ago
    FSD? Tesla sells full self-driving? Does Tesla have a product that does actual full self-driving?
    - simondotau 5y ago
      Given that “full self driving“ isn’t a formally defined term, your question is not one with a concrete answer. It’s just a name. It’s clear to anyone buying the product what it does. Nobody need to explain that Starburst candies don’t literally cause stars to burst. (For what it’s worth, while I think criticism of the “autopilot” name is patently absurd, I do agree that FSD isn't a very good name and it would have been better if it were something else.)
      - clouddrover 5y ago
        > Given that “full self driving“ isn’t a formally defined term, your question is not one with a concrete answer. Don't make me laugh. Everyone knows what it's supposed to mean and Tesla hasn't delivered it. It's embarrassing to witness you even trying that on.
- revscat 5y ago

0_____0 5y ago

If you actually want to save lives, you might start at the top. Driving is hazardous for operators and for bystanders, and kills 40,000 people in the US alone every year. Build cities such that the majority of people don't need or want to drive, and viola, you're saving lives. And the tens or hundreds of billions of dollars worth of human effort and engineering put towards making cars that drive themselves can go to something else.

Retric 5y ago
Most deaths from driving occur outside of cities.
- 0_____0 5y ago
  could you clarify what you mean by 'outside of cities?'
  - simondotau 5y ago
    It would probably be more accurate to say ‘outside of city streets.’ The threat of death tends to scale with vehicle speed.
maxdo 5y ago
a very good joke, what's your estimate to rebuild every city and road in the world lol. Billions of dollars it's a very tiny small fraction of this money.
- 0_____0 5y ago
  It's a matter of priority. Many people have this concept of Amsterdam and Utrecht as having forever been a cycling paradise, but the reality is that they were choked with cars and smog until the 70s. The political will existed to prioritize non-automotive modalities, and a few decades later you have what we see today.

davewritescode 5y ago

I think testing these systems on public roads is 100% reasonable if we all have open access to data. I’m not talking about raw driving data, but aggregate metrics about how well the system is operating and limitations are clearly communicated. Selling a customer a car with a “full self driving” feature while burying the actual functionality in a legal agreement displayed on screen in the vehicle.

simondotau 5y ago
That misrepresents how Tesla sells FSD. The actual current functionality is shown in clear bullet points at the time of sale. It is not buried in a legal agreement.
- clouddrover 5y ago
  FSD? Tesla sells full self-driving? Does Tesla have a product that does actual full self-driving?
  - simondotau 5y ago
    Given that “full self driving“ isn’t a formally defined term, your question is not one with a concrete answer. It’s just a name. It’s clear to anyone buying the product what it does. Nobody need to explain that Starburst candies don’t literally cause stars to burst. (For what it’s worth, while I think criticism of the “autopilot” name is patently absurd, I do agree that FSD isn't a very good name and it would have been better if it were something else.)
    - clouddrover 5y ago
      > Given that “full self driving“ isn’t a formally defined term, your question is not one with a concrete answer. Don't make me laugh. Everyone knows what it's supposed to mean and Tesla hasn't delivered it. It's embarrassing to witness you even trying that on.
revscat 5y ago