5 ms·

I guess what's happening here, is that legacy automakers not able to make EV's with decent profit ( that's real numbers ), hence their production is limited. T

by maxdo 5y ago

I guess what's happening here, is that legacy automakers not able to make EV's with decent profit ( that's real numbers ), hence their production is limited. Traditional media creating so much buzz to slow down and make tesla look bad. I can see every bad news about tesla re-printed everywhere. 1 car got on fire boom... every car outlet re prints. BMW recalled 1M+ cars because of fire risk and some of them still catching on fire on the road while driving on a highway, no one even heard of it. Regarding the article. Author probably never tried to drive FSD. If driver doesn't look on a road for few seconds few time it will ban you from this feature. They use camera, sensors of steering wheel etc... It is very aggressively RESTRICTED , locked LEVEL 2 system. It's only available for few thousands of people. Regular autopliot works only on highways and very limited. FSD name is clearly aspirational. Once they will have a confidence they will switch from level 2 to 3 etc.. By removing/easing restrictions. Only AFTER THAT it will become eligible to a different regulations. The only debate here could be how aggressive you are about this level 2 restrictions while building LEVEL 5 system. I am part of this Beta program. My personal feeling after using this system: you pay attention more compares to regular driving. It tuned this way it will rather do a false positive distraction decision. And yeah, current version is so far away from LEVEL 4 or 5. And it's not usable for every day. The only use of it try, test, provide feedback, turn off , and use the car in a traditional way. There is 0 amount of people who is using this feature not for testings purposes.

soperj 5y ago
Don't do beta testing with machines that can kill people in public. End of story.
- maxdo 5y ago
  Any person can get distracted and kill people in public. Most of the cars doesn't have distraction mechanisms like FSD Beta. e.g. if you're on the phone, FSD will not work. Lets ban people from roads according to your logic. FSD Beta killed 0 people since 1 year of program, humanity killed and made millions people injured due to human mistakes. Any Level 4-5 system deployed on a large scale with save millions of people, prevent even more people from been disabled in the future.
  - Cookingboy 5y ago
    This is some of the most twisted logic I've seen, kudos to you. According to you, as long as a piece of software isn't killing millions of people, it's totally A-ok because human are worse?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- gitfan86 5y ago
  Thousands of people die every year because of human errors. Do you think this should continue forever? If not how do suggest we create software without testing it in real world conditions with a safety driver who can monitor and take over at any time? Do you know how many people have died because they had a medical emergency while driving? Do you think that should continue forever?
  - 0_____0 5y ago
    If you actually want to save lives, you might start at the top. Driving is hazardous for operators and for bystanders, and kills 40,000 people in the US alone every year. Build cities such that the majority of people don't need or want to drive, and viola, you're saving lives. And the tens or hundreds of billions of dollars worth of human effort and engineering put towards making cars that drive themselves can go to something else.
    - Retric 5y ago
      Most deaths from driving occur outside of cities.
      - 0_____0 5y ago
        could you clarify what you mean by 'outside of cities?'
        simondotau 5y ago
        It would probably be more accurate to say ‘outside of city streets.’ The threat of death tends to scale with vehicle speed.
    - maxdo 5y ago
      a very good joke, what's your estimate to rebuild every city and road in the world lol. Billions of dollars it's a very tiny small fraction of this money.
- viktorcode 5y ago
  This requirement is impossible to fulfil because there are no cars that can't kill people on public roads. Regardless of means of driving.
davewritescode 5y ago
Not everything is a conspiracy against Tesla by the media. A lot of folks have legitimate concerns about the way Tesla markets, tests and operates it’s self-driving systems and educates it’s customers about the limitations. This is a video from 5 years ago describing Tesla’s self driving features. https://vimeo.com/188105076 https://vimeo.com/188105076 I personally feel like Musk is writing checks his engineers can’t cash. A lot of the criticism of Tesla is invited by a stock price which a lot of folks think are propped up by mistruths and exaggerations about the future of company and the feasibility of it’s vision. Also, quite frankly I find the term “legacy automaker” infuriating. Toyota builds 9 million cars a year or 18x what Tesla does and Toyota has a legendary reputation for quality and reliability.
- maxdo 5y ago
  Tela's current production rate is at ~1m a year atm. And they doubled amount of their factories in 2022. So not 18x but 9x now and 4.5x a year or two after. They are in the same league nowadays. And they are doing that with 3 factories in 2 countries now. Compare that with Toyota :) Also Tesla outsold Toyota/Lexus in almost every country they operate in segments/pricing they compete by absolute volume. Toyota has also a reputation like any legacy car maker a reputation for selling you some crap like GPS for 10x the price. At least Tesla's overpriced autopilot approach works towards safety( the end goal level 5 system). And if you don't believe in it , not buying it will not make you getting from point a to point B more complicated. Tesla also sell every car "full package" in legacy car makers terms. Every camera, every seat ( except color), every screen detail, speakers , gps is the same in every model from the cheapest to the most expensive. Compare that to legacy makers trying to get 10x of every simple feature like seats heating. You need an App? Pay for it. You need firmaware upgrade go to service and pay for it.. Speaking of safety tesla's cars has always excellent security tests. Toyota don't. There are many things toyota lags behind. Like multi-media, autonomous driving, connectivity, software over the air, battery tech, electric motor design, manufacturing. So yeah, they are legacy atm. Legacy can have a good reputation, even perfect nothing wrong with it. They are legacy because as of 2021 they bet on legacy tech, their way to sell cars is legacy, their approach to packaging is legacy, their approach to safety is legacy... their way to produce cars is legacy. Toyota has quite good roadmap for 2-3 years, maybe they will get into modern world eventually.
clouddrover 5y ago
> Traditional media creating so much buzz to slow down and make tesla look bad. That's a complicated conspiracy theory. The truth is more simple: Tesla is making itself look bad. 5 years ago Tesla said that all of its cars being produced at that time had "the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver": https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now-have-full-self-driving-hardware?redirect=no https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now... That was a lie. > FSD name is clearly aspirational. Super. So when will Tesla start refunding everyone who paid for "full self driving"? Until the "aspiration" becomes an actual delivered product giving refunds is the only honest thing to do.

by maxdo 5y ago

soperj 5y ago

Don't do beta testing with machines that can kill people in public. End of story.

maxdo 5y ago
Any person can get distracted and kill people in public. Most of the cars doesn't have distraction mechanisms like FSD Beta. e.g. if you're on the phone, FSD will not work. Lets ban people from roads according to your logic. FSD Beta killed 0 people since 1 year of program, humanity killed and made millions people injured due to human mistakes. Any Level 4-5 system deployed on a large scale with save millions of people, prevent even more people from been disabled in the future.
- Cookingboy 5y ago
  This is some of the most twisted logic I've seen, kudos to you. According to you, as long as a piece of software isn't killing millions of people, it's totally A-ok because human are worse?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
gitfan86 5y ago
Thousands of people die every year because of human errors. Do you think this should continue forever? If not how do suggest we create software without testing it in real world conditions with a safety driver who can monitor and take over at any time? Do you know how many people have died because they had a medical emergency while driving? Do you think that should continue forever?
- 0_____0 5y ago
  If you actually want to save lives, you might start at the top. Driving is hazardous for operators and for bystanders, and kills 40,000 people in the US alone every year. Build cities such that the majority of people don't need or want to drive, and viola, you're saving lives. And the tens or hundreds of billions of dollars worth of human effort and engineering put towards making cars that drive themselves can go to something else.
  - Retric 5y ago
    Most deaths from driving occur outside of cities.
    - 0_____0 5y ago
      could you clarify what you mean by 'outside of cities?'
      - simondotau 5y ago
        It would probably be more accurate to say ‘outside of city streets.’ The threat of death tends to scale with vehicle speed.
  - maxdo 5y ago
    a very good joke, what's your estimate to rebuild every city and road in the world lol. Billions of dollars it's a very tiny small fraction of this money.
viktorcode 5y ago
This requirement is impossible to fulfil because there are no cars that can't kill people on public roads. Regardless of means of driving.

davewritescode 5y ago

Not everything is a conspiracy against Tesla by the media. A lot of folks have legitimate concerns about the way Tesla markets, tests and operates it’s self-driving systems and educates it’s customers about the limitations. This is a video from 5 years ago describing Tesla’s self driving features. https://vimeo.com/188105076 https://vimeo.com/188105076 I personally feel like Musk is writing checks his engineers can’t cash. A lot of the criticism of Tesla is invited by a stock price which a lot of folks think are propped up by mistruths and exaggerations about the future of company and the feasibility of it’s vision. Also, quite frankly I find the term “legacy automaker” infuriating. Toyota builds 9 million cars a year or 18x what Tesla does and Toyota has a legendary reputation for quality and reliability.

maxdo 5y ago
Tela's current production rate is at ~1m a year atm. And they doubled amount of their factories in 2022. So not 18x but 9x now and 4.5x a year or two after. They are in the same league nowadays. And they are doing that with 3 factories in 2 countries now. Compare that with Toyota :) Also Tesla outsold Toyota/Lexus in almost every country they operate in segments/pricing they compete by absolute volume. Toyota has also a reputation like any legacy car maker a reputation for selling you some crap like GPS for 10x the price. At least Tesla's overpriced autopilot approach works towards safety( the end goal level 5 system). And if you don't believe in it , not buying it will not make you getting from point a to point B more complicated. Tesla also sell every car "full package" in legacy car makers terms. Every camera, every seat ( except color), every screen detail, speakers , gps is the same in every model from the cheapest to the most expensive. Compare that to legacy makers trying to get 10x of every simple feature like seats heating. You need an App? Pay for it. You need firmaware upgrade go to service and pay for it.. Speaking of safety tesla's cars has always excellent security tests. Toyota don't. There are many things toyota lags behind. Like multi-media, autonomous driving, connectivity, software over the air, battery tech, electric motor design, manufacturing. So yeah, they are legacy atm. Legacy can have a good reputation, even perfect nothing wrong with it. They are legacy because as of 2021 they bet on legacy tech, their way to sell cars is legacy, their approach to packaging is legacy, their approach to safety is legacy... their way to produce cars is legacy. Toyota has quite good roadmap for 2-3 years, maybe they will get into modern world eventually.

clouddrover 5y ago

> Traditional media creating so much buzz to slow down and make tesla look bad. That's a complicated conspiracy theory. The truth is more simple: Tesla is making itself look bad. 5 years ago Tesla said that all of its cars being produced at that time had "the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver": https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now-have-full-self-driving-hardware?redirect=no https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-tesla-cars-being-produced-now... That was a lie. > FSD name is clearly aspirational. Super. So when will Tesla start refunding everyone who paid for "full self driving"? Until the "aspiration" becomes an actual delivered product giving refunds is the only honest thing to do.