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I sometimes wonder what is the fundamental distinction between a callback-based API and this wakeup-based task API. I guess the main difference is that in a cal

I sometimes wonder what is the fundamental distinction between a callback-based API and this wakeup-based task API. I guess the main difference is that in a callback you generally provide the result as an argument whereas with a wakeup-based API you just wake the task and it has to look for the result in some stored state somewhere. But ultimately both of them take the "rest of the computation"/continuation and store it somewhere (i.e. on some sleeping task/callback list) to be awakened/invoked later.

tijsvd 5y ago
The callback is really hard to implement without allocating memory for each wakeup. The poll mechanism can simply leave the task in place. I suspect the poll thing is also easier to generate.
carllerche 5y ago
It is fairly subtle and mostly an implementation detail. In Rust, the concept of "polling tasks" was very exposed before the async/await keywords were introduced, so the lingo kind of stuck. There is an argument that we should move away from that lingo now that it is mostly hidden as an implementation detail, but we haven't yet.
namibj 5y ago
A waker-based API can fall back to waking all paused tasks in a background process to recover from lost events (epoll overflow or such), while a callback-based API can't "just" do so without (allocation?) cost on the happy path. Their inherent resilience to spurious wakeups is quite useful in that regard. They also work with exotic FD's, as long as those can still be registered with epoll. For example, pidfd can be polled for readability (despite any read(2) call failing with EINVAL), triggering when the corresponding process terminated. I guess the benefit is that at least on Linux pre-io_uring, the async syscall way of doing things was via poll/select/epoll to notice when an fd unblocked, followed by waking whatever corouting/statemachine was interested in that event. It composes quite well.
oconnor663 5y ago
@tijsvd mentioned that the callback model usually requires more allocation, which Rust is eager to avoid. I'll add that the wakeup/polling model plays much more nicely with Rust's ownership and borrowing rules. Callbacks usually need to hold pointers to the objects that they capture. In a GC'd language, this usually isn't a big deal, other than sometimes causing some surprising leaks. But in Rust, where the compiler wants to keep track of how long pointers live and which objects are aliased, it gets real ugly real fast. The wakeup/polling model sidesteps this nicely, because the no one besides the task itself holds any pointers to the objects that a task owns.

tijsvd 5y ago

The callback is really hard to implement without allocating memory for each wakeup. The poll mechanism can simply leave the task in place. I suspect the poll thing is also easier to generate.

carllerche 5y ago

It is fairly subtle and mostly an implementation detail. In Rust, the concept of "polling tasks" was very exposed before the async/await keywords were introduced, so the lingo kind of stuck. There is an argument that we should move away from that lingo now that it is mostly hidden as an implementation detail, but we haven't yet.

namibj 5y ago

A waker-based API can fall back to waking all paused tasks in a background process to recover from lost events (epoll overflow or such), while a callback-based API can't "just" do so without (allocation?) cost on the happy path. Their inherent resilience to spurious wakeups is quite useful in that regard. They also work with exotic FD's, as long as those can still be registered with epoll. For example, pidfd can be polled for readability (despite any read(2) call failing with EINVAL), triggering when the corresponding process terminated. I guess the benefit is that at least on Linux pre-io_uring, the async syscall way of doing things was via poll/select/epoll to notice when an fd unblocked, followed by waking whatever corouting/statemachine was interested in that event. It composes quite well.

oconnor663 5y ago

@tijsvd mentioned that the callback model usually requires more allocation, which Rust is eager to avoid. I'll add that the wakeup/polling model plays much more nicely with Rust's ownership and borrowing rules. Callbacks usually need to hold pointers to the objects that they capture. In a GC'd language, this usually isn't a big deal, other than sometimes causing some surprising leaks. But in Rust, where the compiler wants to keep track of how long pointers live and which objects are aliased, it gets real ugly real fast. The wakeup/polling model sidesteps this nicely, because the no one besides the task itself holds any pointers to the objects that a task owns.