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See, that's why I made the difference between "business consequences" and emotional impact. When you say "being copied means you're correct", you are talking li

See, that's why I made the difference between "business consequences" and emotional impact. When you say "being copied means you're correct", you are talking like someone with 10 thousands feet view of the situation. If you are toiling in the trenches, I think it still feels like a punch in the stomach. More so, since they copied Apple without "saying" they copied. I mean If you didn't follow the situation closely, you might think that all the design decisions taken by Apple were obvious. While the complete opposite is true. They were carefully weighted decision and often went aginst common sense. Last, I still remember clearly all the business articles claiming that the luxury niche strategy of Apple was doomed. Had it been the case, being correct would have meant nothing in the end, wouldn't it?

mytailorisrich 5y ago
When the iPhone was released many laughed at it and said it was too expensive and that Apple didn't know anything about phones... And yet it promptly destroyed the competition and reshaped the whole industry. Arguably all smartphones on the market today are copies of the iPhone (which sales have grown exponentially year on year from its release in 2007 [first Android version in 2008] until 2015). I can't imagine how any of that could have been "soul crushing", or felt like a "punch in the stomach" for anyone at Apple, including when competitors started to play catch-up by copying. I expect it was the exact opposite feeling, actually.
- dekervin 5y ago
  I don't think your first paragraph support your second paragraph the way you seem to think it does. I agree all smartphones today are Iphone in disguise, but it is not a fact that is part of common wisdom. Therefore, there is no direct cultural "dividend" for Apple, contrary to how we "know" Newton expanded on Galileo. Also, but for a few wrong moves, Apple could have never enjoyed the "capitalistic" dividends of its forward thinking, embodied by a sky high stock price. To be clear, I am not pondering whether it's fair or not. I am saying it must cause a few nightmares at night at least. PS: I just found a quote from Steve Jobs dating from that time, and it seems he didnt take it lightly either. "I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple’s $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong."[1] [1] https://venturebeat.com/2011/10/20/how-steve-jobs-felt-betrayed-by-eric-schmidt-over-googles-android/ https://venturebeat.com/2011/10/20/how-steve-jobs-felt-betra...
bruce511 5y ago
>> If you are toiling in the trenches, I think it still feels like a punch in the stomach. um, nope, I don't think so. It's the sincerest form of flattery. Being a creator, and having your creation influence the creations of other creators is a great feeling.
- dekervin 5y ago
  Regarding "sincerest form of flattery", I think how you copy and when you copy matters. For example, if you copy something that is still in its infancy because you are privy to some insider talks from the creators. I don't think they would take it as flattery. See my other comment elsewhere on this page [0]. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29596238 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29596238
  - moistly 5y ago
    So you’ve asked a question that can only be answered with subjective opinions, and then spend the rest of your time arguing that those subjective opinions must be incorrect because you have a different subjective opinion … which leaves me to wonder if you were sincerely wanting your question answered, or were trolling, looking to have a fight with everyone.
    - dekervin 5y ago
      I am sorry if it came off like fighting. I didn't consider it fighting, but just arguing. I am indeed interested in subjective opinions. But most of the first answers were answering by explaining what was "the right" way for others to react, and doing it authoritatively. What I was trying to argue is both reactions are valid and felt forced to take the other side. I was doing it in the hope that anybody that read this thread would find her reaction in a similar situation legitimate and offer it to us whatever that reaction is. I didn't want them to be inhibited if they were going against the grain. And since I am interested, I replied to every answer that was interesting, like yours :) By the way muzani was the first to offer a first person account of a similar situation. Now re-reading the original post, I probably didn't make it obvious enough that I was interested in "subjective" opinions based on first person experience ! I sincerely hope this reply doesn't read like it's combative, it's really not my state of mind. Edit: I had those kind of stories in mind when asking the question https://www.folklore.org/ https://www.folklore.org/

mytailorisrich 5y ago

When the iPhone was released many laughed at it and said it was too expensive and that Apple didn't know anything about phones... And yet it promptly destroyed the competition and reshaped the whole industry. Arguably all smartphones on the market today are copies of the iPhone (which sales have grown exponentially year on year from its release in 2007 [first Android version in 2008] until 2015). I can't imagine how any of that could have been "soul crushing", or felt like a "punch in the stomach" for anyone at Apple, including when competitors started to play catch-up by copying. I expect it was the exact opposite feeling, actually.

dekervin 5y ago
I don't think your first paragraph support your second paragraph the way you seem to think it does. I agree all smartphones today are Iphone in disguise, but it is not a fact that is part of common wisdom. Therefore, there is no direct cultural "dividend" for Apple, contrary to how we "know" Newton expanded on Galileo. Also, but for a few wrong moves, Apple could have never enjoyed the "capitalistic" dividends of its forward thinking, embodied by a sky high stock price. To be clear, I am not pondering whether it's fair or not. I am saying it must cause a few nightmares at night at least. PS: I just found a quote from Steve Jobs dating from that time, and it seems he didnt take it lightly either. "I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple’s $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong."[1] [1] https://venturebeat.com/2011/10/20/how-steve-jobs-felt-betrayed-by-eric-schmidt-over-googles-android/ https://venturebeat.com/2011/10/20/how-steve-jobs-felt-betra...

bruce511 5y ago

>> If you are toiling in the trenches, I think it still feels like a punch in the stomach. um, nope, I don't think so. It's the sincerest form of flattery. Being a creator, and having your creation influence the creations of other creators is a great feeling.

dekervin 5y ago
Regarding "sincerest form of flattery", I think how you copy and when you copy matters. For example, if you copy something that is still in its infancy because you are privy to some insider talks from the creators. I don't think they would take it as flattery. See my other comment elsewhere on this page [0]. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29596238 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29596238
- moistly 5y ago
  So you’ve asked a question that can only be answered with subjective opinions, and then spend the rest of your time arguing that those subjective opinions must be incorrect because you have a different subjective opinion … which leaves me to wonder if you were sincerely wanting your question answered, or were trolling, looking to have a fight with everyone.
  - dekervin 5y ago
    I am sorry if it came off like fighting. I didn't consider it fighting, but just arguing. I am indeed interested in subjective opinions. But most of the first answers were answering by explaining what was "the right" way for others to react, and doing it authoritatively. What I was trying to argue is both reactions are valid and felt forced to take the other side. I was doing it in the hope that anybody that read this thread would find her reaction in a similar situation legitimate and offer it to us whatever that reaction is. I didn't want them to be inhibited if they were going against the grain. And since I am interested, I replied to every answer that was interesting, like yours :) By the way muzani was the first to offer a first person account of a similar situation. Now re-reading the original post, I probably didn't make it obvious enough that I was interested in "subjective" opinions based on first person experience ! I sincerely hope this reply doesn't read like it's combative, it's really not my state of mind. Edit: I had those kind of stories in mind when asking the question https://www.folklore.org/ https://www.folklore.org/