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>ITS RIGHT THERE, Patreon is working just fine to keep a lot of creators paid with no ultra-inefficient distributed databases or cryptocurrency or whatnot. Just

>ITS RIGHT THERE, Patreon is working just fine to keep a lot of creators paid with no ultra-inefficient distributed databases or cryptocurrency or whatnot. Just some profoundly unsexy credit card/PayPal/stripe transactions. Why don't you take a look at https://www.patreon.com/policy/benefits https://www.patreon.com/policy/benefits? Millions of creators are disenfranchised by Patreon. Also, you need a credit card / bank account to accept transactions from Patreon. With crypto, you can create a wallet in seconds and immediately start accepting payment.

shatteredgate 5y ago
I'm not sure what is objectionable about that or who is being disenfranchised, most of those policies seem to be based around restricting gifting of illegal or highly regulated products which would also be illegal or require extra compliance steps to be taken if done using cryptocurrency. I can't imagine a comparable donation platform using cryptocurrency would be built any differently. For creators trying to make a living, they still need a bank account to extract the money from their crypto wallet if they want to use that money to pay rent and buy groceries, and volatile currencies with high transaction fees like Bitcoin are a really bad choice for that; stablecoins may be an option there eventually but it's still unclear to me what benefit those provide over cash for the small-time independent creator.
senko 5y ago
> Also, you need a credit card / bank account to accept transactions from Patreon. > With crypto, you can create a wallet in seconds and immediately start accepting payment. And how are you going to use that to buy groceries or pay rent?
- reaperducer 5y ago
  And how are you going to use that to buy groceries or pay rent? The big American chain supermarket near my home has a crypto ATM at the front, next to the shopping buggies. So I guess you could get cash that way and buy groceries. Rent? Good luck. Every building has its own methods, customs, and policies, even within a single company; and I've never seen one that takes crypto for rent.
junon 5y ago
> you can create a wallet in seconds My mother, who is only slightly technically inclined, who knows how cash and cards work (for her), would not be able to set up a cryptocurrency wallet, secure it, understand it, and use it, "in seconds" or otherwise "immediately". This is the #1 biggest hurdle cryptocurrencies still have to solve. And if the response is "well cryptocurrencies aren't for people like your mom", then cryptocurrencies have no benefit other than as a novelty.
- PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
  fair point, but if that is the threshold for "nothing than a novelty", we'd have said the same about all kinds of technology along the way. it's ok to say "this is really for younger people and future generations".
  - edgyquant 5y ago
    Even then it’s only for tech savvy people. A ton of younger people are relying on “that one friend” to tell them about crypto and what/how to buy. I see it on my Facebook, even, kids I went to high school with who have no interest in finance asking for help.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
      Look, I'm in no way a fan of crypto (certainly not the way it has turned out). But you're thinking too short term. If crypto ever actually becomes widespread, it will be common for a generation that is not even born yet. They will not be (by comparison with their peers) be "tech savvy", certainly no more than today's 5-35 year old's are with respect to using smartphones.
      - edgyquant 5y ago
        I’m not in disagreement, and I don’t really have an opinion either way on crypto I see it as a cool technology but I don’t care for politics, but I think the solution isn’t just that future generations will find it easier. I think that instead future generations will have an abstraction layer that makes using crypto as simple as using PayPal.
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> With crypto, you can create a wallet in seconds and immediately start accepting payment. I think this demonstrates the massive gap between crypto people and the general public. If you already have all of the crypto stuff set up, secured, understood, in the right cryptocurrency, and ready to go then it can be a quick transaction (after waiting for the transaction to clear). But for the average person, the overhead of diving into the cryptocurrency world is far more than "in seconds". It also comes with a lot of fees and issues at every step along the way. Sending BTC or ETH to someone is actually a very expensive endeavor right now, often more than just the $5/month Patreon tiers. And then there are transaction fees along the way to buy into crypto, and the recipient has to cash out the crypto, pay exchange fees, and deal with taxes. In the theoretical all-crypto world where everyone agrees to use some future perfectly efficient, decentralized blockchain, this might make sense. In the real world, it doesn't hold up at all.
dangerface 5y ago
> With crypto, you can create a wallet in seconds and immediately start accepting payment. This is a half truth sure you can do that but if you ever want to use your crypto for anything legitimate you need to go through the whole KYC bullshit. That means there are now countless crypto exchanges with a copy of my passport, and they seem to get hacked a lot. I only had to do KYC once to get and use my credit card.

shatteredgate 5y ago

I'm not sure what is objectionable about that or who is being disenfranchised, most of those policies seem to be based around restricting gifting of illegal or highly regulated products which would also be illegal or require extra compliance steps to be taken if done using cryptocurrency. I can't imagine a comparable donation platform using cryptocurrency would be built any differently. For creators trying to make a living, they still need a bank account to extract the money from their crypto wallet if they want to use that money to pay rent and buy groceries, and volatile currencies with high transaction fees like Bitcoin are a really bad choice for that; stablecoins may be an option there eventually but it's still unclear to me what benefit those provide over cash for the small-time independent creator.

senko 5y ago

> Also, you need a credit card / bank account to accept transactions from Patreon. > With crypto, you can create a wallet in seconds and immediately start accepting payment. And how are you going to use that to buy groceries or pay rent?

reaperducer 5y ago
And how are you going to use that to buy groceries or pay rent? The big American chain supermarket near my home has a crypto ATM at the front, next to the shopping buggies. So I guess you could get cash that way and buy groceries. Rent? Good luck. Every building has its own methods, customs, and policies, even within a single company; and I've never seen one that takes crypto for rent.

junon 5y ago

> you can create a wallet in seconds My mother, who is only slightly technically inclined, who knows how cash and cards work (for her), would not be able to set up a cryptocurrency wallet, secure it, understand it, and use it, "in seconds" or otherwise "immediately". This is the #1 biggest hurdle cryptocurrencies still have to solve. And if the response is "well cryptocurrencies aren't for people like your mom", then cryptocurrencies have no benefit other than as a novelty.

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
fair point, but if that is the threshold for "nothing than a novelty", we'd have said the same about all kinds of technology along the way. it's ok to say "this is really for younger people and future generations".
- edgyquant 5y ago
  Even then it’s only for tech savvy people. A ton of younger people are relying on “that one friend” to tell them about crypto and what/how to buy. I see it on my Facebook, even, kids I went to high school with who have no interest in finance asking for help.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
    Look, I'm in no way a fan of crypto (certainly not the way it has turned out). But you're thinking too short term. If crypto ever actually becomes widespread, it will be common for a generation that is not even born yet. They will not be (by comparison with their peers) be "tech savvy", certainly no more than today's 5-35 year old's are with respect to using smartphones.
    - edgyquant 5y ago
      I’m not in disagreement, and I don’t really have an opinion either way on crypto I see it as a cool technology but I don’t care for politics, but I think the solution isn’t just that future generations will find it easier. I think that instead future generations will have an abstraction layer that makes using crypto as simple as using PayPal.

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

> With crypto, you can create a wallet in seconds and immediately start accepting payment. I think this demonstrates the massive gap between crypto people and the general public. If you already have all of the crypto stuff set up, secured, understood, in the right cryptocurrency, and ready to go then it can be a quick transaction (after waiting for the transaction to clear). But for the average person, the overhead of diving into the cryptocurrency world is far more than "in seconds". It also comes with a lot of fees and issues at every step along the way. Sending BTC or ETH to someone is actually a very expensive endeavor right now, often more than just the $5/month Patreon tiers. And then there are transaction fees along the way to buy into crypto, and the recipient has to cash out the crypto, pay exchange fees, and deal with taxes. In the theoretical all-crypto world where everyone agrees to use some future perfectly efficient, decentralized blockchain, this might make sense. In the real world, it doesn't hold up at all.

dangerface 5y ago

> With crypto, you can create a wallet in seconds and immediately start accepting payment. This is a half truth sure you can do that but if you ever want to use your crypto for anything legitimate you need to go through the whole KYC bullshit. That means there are now countless crypto exchanges with a copy of my passport, and they seem to get hacked a lot. I only had to do KYC once to get and use my credit card.