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This is a horrible take. A Chinese company stealing IP is very different from China stealing IP. Google was caught using IP from Sogou for its pinyin IME, but w
by BusyLurker3K 5y ago
This is a horrible take. A Chinese company stealing IP is very different from China stealing IP. Google was caught using IP from Sogou for its pinyin IME, but we don't say America stealing IP.
- Lhiw 5y agoIf you think the CCP doesn't have a hand in every major company or export you're naive.
- criddell 5y agoByteDance is partially controlled by the government so I don't think your Google analogy is a good one. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-17/beijing-tightens-grip-on-bytedance-with-rare-china-board-seat https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-17/beijing-t... https://qz.com/1788836/targeting-tiktoks-privacy-alone-misses-a-much-larger-point/ https://qz.com/1788836/targeting-tiktoks-privacy-alone-misse...
- pphysch 5y ago
- criddell 5y agoYes, I honestly think Washington doesn't exercise similar influence over Google or other American companies. CNN likes to pop up a PIP view of what's being broadcast in China when they talk about things that embarrass the Chinese government. When they start talking about Peng Shuai it takes about two seconds before the Chinese broadcast becomes a test pattern. When's the last time you saw a test pattern when watching a foreign news channel?
- pphysch 5y agoIf you want to uncritically believe everything US establishment media says about enemies of the US establishment, that is your problem.
- criddell 5y agoWhere did I say that? Keep in mind that I'm not saying the US government has no influence, but it isn't anywhere close to what the situation in China is.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- fortuna86 5y agoI think he's changing the subject to what he wants to discuss, what he thought this conversation was about the whole time. Happens a lot in online discussions.
- fortuna86 5y agoYes.
- pphysch 5y agoWell, you've been misled. https://transparencyreport.google.com https://transparencyreport.google.com
- pdabbadabba 5y agoIf they're equally influenced by their national governments, perhaps you can also direct us to ByteDance's own transparency report, so we can compare?
- pphysch 5y agoThat would be moving the goalposts. We're concerned whether companies are de facto influenced by governments, not whether those companies produce PR material about said influences.
- fortuna86 5y ago"You are moving goalposts" proceeds to move goalposts ByteDance doesn't issue such reports because everyone knows they cannot refuse a request by their government. Any report that says otherwise would be, as you say, "PR material".
- trasz 5y agoSame way US-based companies can’t refuse gag orders and other kangaroo “secret courts”.
- fortuna86 5y agoUS companies can and often do refuse federal law enforcement requests, then they tell the world about it. Two things not done, ever, in China. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93Apple_encryption_dispute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBI%E2%80%93Apple_encryption_d...
- xvector 5y agoWhy are people downvoting you? You are 100% correct about NSLs and gag orders. This is one of the biggest issues the EFF focuses on: https://www.eff.org/issues/national-security-letters/faq https://www.eff.org/issues/national-security-letters/faq
- pphysch 5y agoWhat can I say, I'm attempting to add nuance and scrutiny to what is a black-and-white issue for most of HN.
- dang 5y agoSince your intention is to add nuance and scrutiny, you should be posting much more thoughtfully and substantively than comments like these: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29594691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29594691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29597691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29597691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29596075 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29596075 Those comments aren't adding nuance, they're perpetuating flamewar. Please don't do that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- throw10920 5y agoThey are not correct about NSLs - the level of control exercised by those is not even remotely comparable to the level of power that the CCP holds (and exercises) over Chinese companies. Nobody thinks that NSLs don't exist, it's just that they're not comparable to the issue at hand. And, in particular, the US government does not either possess or exercise the power over US companies to coerce them to steal IP from other countries - which is the issue under discussion.
- throw10920 5y agoThe US government does not either possess or exercise the power over US companies to coerce them to steal IP from other countries (or companies thereof), which is the issue under discussion (despite attempts to redirect it). Neither NSLs nor Jigsaw give them that power. These are facts.
- pphysch 5y agoCharacterizing a Ctrl-C Ctrl-V of a publicly available, open-source codebase as government-coerced theft is hilariously overdramatic.
- rackjack 5y agoBasically every major Chinese company is partially controlled by the Chinese government. (Not trying to detract from your point, just providing context.)
- NullPrefix 5y ago>Sogou for its pinyin IME What does it mean?