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> but what about the newer/better tech? But what about existing and proven technology that has been around for decades? This whole "web3" thing seemingly focus

> but what about the newer/better tech? But what about existing and proven technology that has been around for decades? This whole "web3" thing seemingly focuses on problems nobody has, cares for, or can be solved with what already exists in far more efficient ways.

maxwell 5y ago
The problem it solves is making money. Traditionally, many have solved for this by founding/working for government-registered companies and building proprietary software that's sold for government-issued notes. Now there's an alternative to that pattern.
- shatteredgate 5y ago
  That doesn't follow though. Your thesis is "the problem it solves is making money" but then in the second paragraph you say the problem is already solved in other ways that don't involve any web3 or cryptocurrency. Maybe you could revise it to "The problem it solves is making money without the government knowing what you're doing" but that seems like the type of statement that would attract tax cheats, ransomware distributors, and other criminals, and it's also not really true of cryptocurrency anyway; most governments have already made moves to regulate cryptocurrency.
  - maxwell 5y ago
    If your problem is rodent infestation, yeah, you can use mouse traps. And people can make "better" mouse traps, depending on preferences around cruelty, from glue boards to Havaheart. But rat poison is cheaper, simpler, and more effective, specifically second-generation anticoagulants [1]. They're alternatives, with trade-offs. The problem with rat poison and most blockchains are the environmental externalities. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29527251 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29527251
    - shatteredgate 5y ago
      To me the problem with blockchains is that they don't actually do anything except cause environmental externalities. That seems to be their entire purpose, done in the service of keeping the currency deflationary so the early investors continue getting richer off of new participants. I've read countless articles and technical papers about them and, aside from the whole ponzi scheme aspect, I still can't understand why anyone would choose it over any other distributed database that doesn't require transaction fees and a proof-of-something system to keep the system online.
lukifer 5y ago
> problems nobody has Depends on whether one sees the enclosure of social and digital Commons as a problem. Folks like Bruce Schneier [0] and Cory Doctorow [1] have been ringing alarm bells for years on "digital feudalism": despite FOSS and federated alternatives, 99% of us choose to pledge fealty over our digital lives to a small handful of centralized firms. These aren't always bad trades: tech giants tend to be very good at what they do, and I don't begrudge any consumer their individual choices. But the centralization of power, the "dark patterns" of user manipulation, the social externalities of engagement algorithms, the risk of one's digital identity vanishing for no reason at all: I don't think these are "problems nobody has". Insert the obvious caveats on techno-utopianism and con-artists: we should have healthy skepticism towards crypto-tokens and the "web3" buzzword-du-jour. But as we look back at the successes and failures of "web1", the notable absence of any form of user-sovereign (a) identity, or (b) value transfer, is a tragically glaring omission (if forgivable: they are non-trivial problems!). This vacuum opened up the space for private capture, from Google SSO to Venmo. It remains to be seen whether any of the players in "web3" can deliver the goods on actually out-competing Metcalfe monopolies [2]. But I'm glad the effort is being made (and not just as get-rich-quick schemes: there are a surprising number of left-anarchists and mutualists working in the DAO space). [0] http://en.collaboratory.de/w/Power_in_the_Age_of_the_Feudal_Internet http://en.collaboratory.de/w/Power_in_the_Age_of_the_Feudal_... [1] https://locusmag.com/2021/01/cory-doctorow-neofeudalism-and-the-digital-manor/ https://locusmag.com/2021/01/cory-doctorow-neofeudalism-and-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe%27s_law

maxwell 5y ago

The problem it solves is making money. Traditionally, many have solved for this by founding/working for government-registered companies and building proprietary software that's sold for government-issued notes. Now there's an alternative to that pattern.

shatteredgate 5y ago
That doesn't follow though. Your thesis is "the problem it solves is making money" but then in the second paragraph you say the problem is already solved in other ways that don't involve any web3 or cryptocurrency. Maybe you could revise it to "The problem it solves is making money without the government knowing what you're doing" but that seems like the type of statement that would attract tax cheats, ransomware distributors, and other criminals, and it's also not really true of cryptocurrency anyway; most governments have already made moves to regulate cryptocurrency.
- maxwell 5y ago
  If your problem is rodent infestation, yeah, you can use mouse traps. And people can make "better" mouse traps, depending on preferences around cruelty, from glue boards to Havaheart. But rat poison is cheaper, simpler, and more effective, specifically second-generation anticoagulants [1]. They're alternatives, with trade-offs. The problem with rat poison and most blockchains are the environmental externalities. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29527251 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29527251
  - shatteredgate 5y ago
    To me the problem with blockchains is that they don't actually do anything except cause environmental externalities. That seems to be their entire purpose, done in the service of keeping the currency deflationary so the early investors continue getting richer off of new participants. I've read countless articles and technical papers about them and, aside from the whole ponzi scheme aspect, I still can't understand why anyone would choose it over any other distributed database that doesn't require transaction fees and a proof-of-something system to keep the system online.

lukifer 5y ago

> problems nobody has Depends on whether one sees the enclosure of social and digital Commons as a problem. Folks like Bruce Schneier [0] and Cory Doctorow [1] have been ringing alarm bells for years on "digital feudalism": despite FOSS and federated alternatives, 99% of us choose to pledge fealty over our digital lives to a small handful of centralized firms. These aren't always bad trades: tech giants tend to be very good at what they do, and I don't begrudge any consumer their individual choices. But the centralization of power, the "dark patterns" of user manipulation, the social externalities of engagement algorithms, the risk of one's digital identity vanishing for no reason at all: I don't think these are "problems nobody has". Insert the obvious caveats on techno-utopianism and con-artists: we should have healthy skepticism towards crypto-tokens and the "web3" buzzword-du-jour. But as we look back at the successes and failures of "web1", the notable absence of any form of user-sovereign (a) identity, or (b) value transfer, is a tragically glaring omission (if forgivable: they are non-trivial problems!). This vacuum opened up the space for private capture, from Google SSO to Venmo. It remains to be seen whether any of the players in "web3" can deliver the goods on actually out-competing Metcalfe monopolies [2]. But I'm glad the effort is being made (and not just as get-rich-quick schemes: there are a surprising number of left-anarchists and mutualists working in the DAO space). [0] http://en.collaboratory.de/w/Power_in_the_Age_of_the_Feudal_Internet http://en.collaboratory.de/w/Power_in_the_Age_of_the_Feudal_... [1] https://locusmag.com/2021/01/cory-doctorow-neofeudalism-and-the-digital-manor/ https://locusmag.com/2021/01/cory-doctorow-neofeudalism-and-... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalfe%27s_law