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Perdue President Mitch Daniels said “Those seeking to deny those rights to others, let alone to collude with foreign governments in repressing them, will need t

Perdue President Mitch Daniels said “Those seeking to deny those rights to others, let alone to collude with foreign governments in repressing them, will need to pursue their education elsewhere,” but there is no indication that the students have been expelled. The statement is bizarre and nonsensical if the students are not expelled.

abruzzi 5y ago
"If those students can be identified..." It sounds from the statement that they don't know who they are at this point. This sounds to me like an initial statement before a full investigation has completed. I would also say that for the rights of other students, there should be some kind of fair process to ensure that the accused are fairly treated.
- lazide 5y ago
  Also it’s what they would say if they wanted to look like they were taking a hard stance while having an out to avoid actually doing anything concrete or with consequences. Only time will tell what actually is done.
- netcan 5y ago
  The student has stated (on reddit) that he has identities and proof at ready for police and/or the university.
dmix 5y ago
It also sounds like they’d need proof they colluded with a foreign entity which is a very high bar.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  > Those seeking to deny those rights to others I'd say harassment falls into this category, so no proof of collusion with the CCP is needed.
  - lazide 5y ago
    If something is harassment or merely exercising their right to express their opinion is also a matter for subjective judgement and he said/she said type finger pointing, and highly dependent on context and frequency (which can be hard to find solid concrete evidence for without a lot of work).
    - simonh 5y ago
      It sounds like some of the students not only threatened to report him to the Chinese authorities, but told him that they had done so, and he has proof who made these threats and claims. They didn’t try to hide it.
      - lazide 5y ago
        If they have a right to do that, is that harassment? I doubt Purdue (up to now) has any policy saying it’s illegal to report someone to authorities for something they did. Even if those authorities are not popular right now and the thing they did is ok at Perdue but not at home. Is it a ‘dick move’ and offend our sensibilities? Sure. But that doesn’t mean it’s any different than if a bunch of folks from the US were at a French university during the 50’s and someone called the FBI telling them that Bob was saying a lot of scary things about communism and just got a Russian Girlfriend and maybe they should look into it. If it’s true, then of course the FBI is going to look into it. If true, it’s also unlikely to count as harassment. It’s also pretty terrible from 5 different angles.
        ralmidani 5y ago
        People have been expelled from universities for videos where they used the N-word. I agree with imposing that consequence (unless it was in the distant past and the student has since shown genuine rehabilitation). Reporting someone to a regime which tortures, kills, and harvests the organs of dissenters is orders of magnitudes worse than using a racist slur.
        5y ago
- Larrikin 5y ago
  Even a public university can decide what they want to do when it comes to punishment for students they admit. You aren't owed an explanation no matter how much you pretend on the internet to care.
  - fallingknife 5y ago
    A public university has to respect the constitutional rights of it's students though. So there would be very strong legal protection for pro China students. Edit: actually not sure if they are foreign nationals. Maybe someone knows if same applies?
    - gameswithgo 5y ago
      People have no problem bending the rules to punish people swiftly if it benefits them. It is only when it would be painful to do the right thing that people insist on their legal limitations.
    - jakeinspace 5y ago
      The student's citizenship makes no difference legally when it comes to First Amendment privileges.
    - ivalm 5y ago
      > constitutional rights This is a false statement. The only regulation here is title VI and title IX. The administration of a public university is not legally part of the government.
      - stale2002 5y ago
        > The administration of a public university is not legally part of the government. Nope, you are wrong. There have literally been supreme court cases about free speech rights of students. And yes, the supreme court has found that it is possible for a public school to break the 1st amendment rights of students.
    - nouveaux 5y ago
outside1234 5y ago
Why do they need proof of being a foreign entity? Just the intimidation should get them expelled.
- netcan 5y ago
  Because the most intimidating part is arranging a secret police visit to his parents. Students arguing politics, even if uncivil, isn't something you want to be "no tolerance" about. There are lines though, and this is one.
  - skeeter2020 5y ago
    Anyone who;s attended a western university has seen how ... emotional? the politcals can get. I think this is probably a good thing, so it's tough to determine when the line is crossed. It sounds like it was definitely crossed here but it's still a tough minefield to navigate.
    - outside1234 5y ago
      Emotions are fine - sending the secret police to a parent's home - not fine and the student should be expelled.
    - hackerfromthefu 5y ago
      There seems to be a large or loud group who stoke their emotions, but not their rationality .. its like the blood drains from their head when their heart gets fired up Emotions are good, but excessive emotions without deep understanding is something very different.
dirtyid 5y ago
At the end of the day, it's a stretch to assume the students did anything other than wield their rights to free speech on an American (or other western) campus. Anti CCP activities, on campus or elsewhere in west makes it way through PRC media bubbles with of millions of eyeballs willing to do the dirty work, frequently within PRC soil. All it takes is for a post to trend. Freedom of speech in west =/= freedom from consequences, which applies even less in PRC. What's nonsensical are the allegations that politically engaged pro-PRC/CCP Chinese national students must be state agents. And the disproportionate media attention it gets in the west whenever there's diaspora drama between PRC students and HK/Tibet etc. CCP doesn't need to instruct nationalists to behave like nationalists. Rich Chinese kids with social media are playing the same cancel culture game against the out-group and that just happens to be aligned/exploitable for PRC censorship.
- eli_gottlieb 5y ago
  >Rich Chinese kids with social media are playing the same cancel culture game against the out-group and that just happens to be aligned/exploitable for PRC censorship. So? It's a crappy game and we should stop letting them play it. Making up accusations of being a CIA agent is not better than making up accusations of being a PLA agent.
- simonh 5y ago
  There’s no assuming going on. These students explicitly threatened reporting him to the Chinese government, and did so using their registered accounts in online chat so we know exactly who it was.
  - dirtyid 5y ago
    That's called an allegation, an assumption. And alleging students said some dumb shit is different than proving collusion with PRC gov unless Purdue can dig up files from PRC MSS. In the meantime, the parsimonious answer is kids playing with PRC cancel culture, because to my knowledge there hasn't been a single proven allegation of PRC kids directly reporting other PRC nationals on western campus. Plenty of yellow journalism alleging collusion from the last few years, but zero expulsions despite China Initiative cracking down on campus harder than ever. That should tell you something. If anything I hope Kong / Purdue hits up the proper authorities and finally get some clarity on the extends of the issue other than non-stop news cycle weasel allegations. IMO the likely outcome is dumb kids trigger cancel culture drama over social media, and again free speech =/= freedom from consequences in other jurisdictions.

abruzzi 5y ago

"If those students can be identified..." It sounds from the statement that they don't know who they are at this point. This sounds to me like an initial statement before a full investigation has completed. I would also say that for the rights of other students, there should be some kind of fair process to ensure that the accused are fairly treated.

lazide 5y ago
Also it’s what they would say if they wanted to look like they were taking a hard stance while having an out to avoid actually doing anything concrete or with consequences. Only time will tell what actually is done.
netcan 5y ago
The student has stated (on reddit) that he has identities and proof at ready for police and/or the university.

dmix 5y ago

It also sounds like they’d need proof they colluded with a foreign entity which is a very high bar.

colinmhayes 5y ago
> Those seeking to deny those rights to others I'd say harassment falls into this category, so no proof of collusion with the CCP is needed.
- lazide 5y ago
  If something is harassment or merely exercising their right to express their opinion is also a matter for subjective judgement and he said/she said type finger pointing, and highly dependent on context and frequency (which can be hard to find solid concrete evidence for without a lot of work).
  - simonh 5y ago
    It sounds like some of the students not only threatened to report him to the Chinese authorities, but told him that they had done so, and he has proof who made these threats and claims. They didn’t try to hide it.
    - lazide 5y ago
      If they have a right to do that, is that harassment? I doubt Purdue (up to now) has any policy saying it’s illegal to report someone to authorities for something they did. Even if those authorities are not popular right now and the thing they did is ok at Perdue but not at home. Is it a ‘dick move’ and offend our sensibilities? Sure. But that doesn’t mean it’s any different than if a bunch of folks from the US were at a French university during the 50’s and someone called the FBI telling them that Bob was saying a lot of scary things about communism and just got a Russian Girlfriend and maybe they should look into it. If it’s true, then of course the FBI is going to look into it. If true, it’s also unlikely to count as harassment. It’s also pretty terrible from 5 different angles.
      - ralmidani 5y ago
        People have been expelled from universities for videos where they used the N-word. I agree with imposing that consequence (unless it was in the distant past and the student has since shown genuine rehabilitation). Reporting someone to a regime which tortures, kills, and harvests the organs of dissenters is orders of magnitudes worse than using a racist slur.
        5y ago
Larrikin 5y ago
Even a public university can decide what they want to do when it comes to punishment for students they admit. You aren't owed an explanation no matter how much you pretend on the internet to care.
- fallingknife 5y ago
  A public university has to respect the constitutional rights of it's students though. So there would be very strong legal protection for pro China students. Edit: actually not sure if they are foreign nationals. Maybe someone knows if same applies?
  - gameswithgo 5y ago
    People have no problem bending the rules to punish people swiftly if it benefits them. It is only when it would be painful to do the right thing that people insist on their legal limitations.
  - jakeinspace 5y ago
    The student's citizenship makes no difference legally when it comes to First Amendment privileges.
  - ivalm 5y ago
    > constitutional rights This is a false statement. The only regulation here is title VI and title IX. The administration of a public university is not legally part of the government.
    - stale2002 5y ago
      > The administration of a public university is not legally part of the government. Nope, you are wrong. There have literally been supreme court cases about free speech rights of students. And yes, the supreme court has found that it is possible for a public school to break the 1st amendment rights of students.
  - nouveaux 5y ago

outside1234 5y ago

Why do they need proof of being a foreign entity? Just the intimidation should get them expelled.

netcan 5y ago
Because the most intimidating part is arranging a secret police visit to his parents. Students arguing politics, even if uncivil, isn't something you want to be "no tolerance" about. There are lines though, and this is one.
- skeeter2020 5y ago
  Anyone who;s attended a western university has seen how ... emotional? the politcals can get. I think this is probably a good thing, so it's tough to determine when the line is crossed. It sounds like it was definitely crossed here but it's still a tough minefield to navigate.
  - outside1234 5y ago
    Emotions are fine - sending the secret police to a parent's home - not fine and the student should be expelled.
  - hackerfromthefu 5y ago
    There seems to be a large or loud group who stoke their emotions, but not their rationality .. its like the blood drains from their head when their heart gets fired up Emotions are good, but excessive emotions without deep understanding is something very different.

dirtyid 5y ago

At the end of the day, it's a stretch to assume the students did anything other than wield their rights to free speech on an American (or other western) campus. Anti CCP activities, on campus or elsewhere in west makes it way through PRC media bubbles with of millions of eyeballs willing to do the dirty work, frequently within PRC soil. All it takes is for a post to trend. Freedom of speech in west =/= freedom from consequences, which applies even less in PRC. What's nonsensical are the allegations that politically engaged pro-PRC/CCP Chinese national students must be state agents. And the disproportionate media attention it gets in the west whenever there's diaspora drama between PRC students and HK/Tibet etc. CCP doesn't need to instruct nationalists to behave like nationalists. Rich Chinese kids with social media are playing the same cancel culture game against the out-group and that just happens to be aligned/exploitable for PRC censorship.

eli_gottlieb 5y ago
>Rich Chinese kids with social media are playing the same cancel culture game against the out-group and that just happens to be aligned/exploitable for PRC censorship. So? It's a crappy game and we should stop letting them play it. Making up accusations of being a CIA agent is not better than making up accusations of being a PLA agent.
simonh 5y ago
There’s no assuming going on. These students explicitly threatened reporting him to the Chinese government, and did so using their registered accounts in online chat so we know exactly who it was.
- dirtyid 5y ago
  That's called an allegation, an assumption. And alleging students said some dumb shit is different than proving collusion with PRC gov unless Purdue can dig up files from PRC MSS. In the meantime, the parsimonious answer is kids playing with PRC cancel culture, because to my knowledge there hasn't been a single proven allegation of PRC kids directly reporting other PRC nationals on western campus. Plenty of yellow journalism alleging collusion from the last few years, but zero expulsions despite China Initiative cracking down on campus harder than ever. That should tell you something. If anything I hope Kong / Purdue hits up the proper authorities and finally get some clarity on the extends of the issue other than non-stop news cycle weasel allegations. IMO the likely outcome is dumb kids trigger cancel culture drama over social media, and again free speech =/= freedom from consequences in other jurisdictions.