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You got pretty bad covid (on average worse than unvaccinated for you age) in spite of getting vaccinated and still think the problem lies in not enough vaccinat

You got pretty bad covid (on average worse than unvaccinated for you age) in spite of getting vaccinated and still think the problem lies in not enough vaccinations? At least your anecdote would lead an unbiased person to question how effective really was the vaccine for you.

johnchristopher 5y ago
Vaccines aren't 100% effective. They are still necessary. What a weird argument you are building, suggesting the vaccine wasn't good for him because he got bad covid and didn't die.
- peteradio 5y ago
  On the contrary, I find it odd that a case where vaccine did not prevent serious illness (neurological symptoms) is presented as a positive for the vaccine.
  - johnchristopher 5y ago
    If you really find this odd then you are either being dishonest and intentionally spreading FUD or dense. I chose to believe you are not stupid. Unfortunately it means you are not yet in a place where you can reassess your beliefs and any rational arguments or facts will only strengthen those beliefs by the sheer need for the psyche to secure itself.
    - peteradio 5y ago
      Its one thing to dismiss it as anecdotal, its another thing to present the anecdote as the opposite of a rational conclusion.
      - johnchristopher 5y ago
        Exactly, and that's why we know vaccines work, because we looked at the overall picture and not at anecdotal data points.
- giardini 5y ago
  johnchristopher says "Vaccines aren't 100% effective. They are still necessary." Why are vaccines necessary? A cure would be just fine; some drug that stopped covid immediately would be very nice. For example most forms of malaria _had_ a cure with the discovery of quinine. Newer drugs have taken quinine's place. It's a race between the organism and man in any case, whether cure or vaccine.
  - johnchristopher 5y ago
    > Why are vaccines necessary? Because we don't have a cure ? > A cure would be just fine; some drug that stopped covid immediately would be very nice. > For example most forms of malaria _had_ a cure with the discovery of quinine. Newer drugs have taken quinine's place. It's a race between the organism and man in any case, whether cure or vaccine. So we don't need vaccines because cures - which we don't have so far - are better. Okay.
    - giardini 5y ago
      johnchristopher says:>"So we don't need vaccines because cures - which we don't have so far - are better."< I didn't say that. What I'm saying is that we should research treatments (non-vaccine cures) as well as vaccines. After all, of our current medical solutions that do work for various ailments, what percentage are vaccines and what percentage are treatments found by experiment or accident (like quinine for malaria)?
EForEndeavour 5y ago
> You got pretty bad covid [...] your anecdote would lead an unbiased person to question how effective really was the vaccine for you If it was this bad with the vaccine, imagine how much worse off he would have surely been without it. He likely suffered the viral equivalent of seatbelt-shaped bruises on his body after a car crash that would have otherwise killed him. > still think the problem lies in not enough vaccinations Where does OP say that?
- peteradio 5y ago
  The rarity of death in less than 30 year old without comorbidity would be like someone his age falling down the stairs and randomly breaking their neck. To compare this to an unseatbelted car crash is super disingenuous. He's blaming his sickness on the unvaccinated guy he got it from with no hint of irony that he got it despite being vaccinated and potentially spreading it as well.
  - piva00 5y ago
    > He's blaming his sickness on the unvaccinated guy he got it from with no hint of irony that he got it despite being vaccinated and potentially spreading it as well. Yes, because all the data shows that infection between vaccinated -> vaccinated is lowered, there is no irony in there. Also because the person in question didn't isolate the moment they felt sick, they continuously wandered around the house and I forced them to isolate after they showed up in front of me, coughing and announcing they "felt sick". So fuck off. I caught it at home, I stayed home, the person lives in the same house, and so I didn't infect anyone else. You have a pretty annoying and uncivil attitude, not sure what triggers you about the vaccine talk but you have an axe to grind and you are piling on my anecdote to push whatever view you have without backing it up, I will stop engaging because I surely don't see any point in trying to hold civility towards you. Have a good weekend, hope you find better ways to spend your energy.
piva00 5y ago
I don't think I got pretty bad COVID, I know at least two people who died from COVID back in my home country (Brazil), one around 50 years old, another one was 35. I didn't have any cough or shortness of breath, there was nothing in the sense of "pretty bad COVID", this was a very mild infection. Even more when I compare to the person who infected me, 4 years older than me and still coughing their brains out after 2 weeks with it, including blood in their cough for a couple days. So I'm not sure where you are drawing this conclusion from... The vaccine was effective, I didn't infect my girlfriend whom I shared rooms, bed and so on, and I attribute that to both me and her being vaccinated, hers was a month later than mine so I believe she has a higher antibodies count going on. I really, really don't understand what point you are trying to make out of my anecdote, nothing in there draws to your conclusion. EDIT: I believe you have an axe to grind, don't come soapboxing over my anecdote with your own made-up conclusions about what I said. It's dishonest and crummy.
- native_samples 5y ago
  FYI, it's normal for people living together to not infect each other even without vaccines. SAR has only ever been in the range of 10%-20% ish. Also vaccines haven't managed to alter that.[1] When my girlfriend got COVID (pre-vaccines) she was unable to infect me despite that we were quarantined together for 10 days in close contact, made no effect to reduce contact and she was even cooking for me whilst coughing over the food. [1] "In the UK it was described that secondary attack rates among household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was similar to household contacts exposed to unvaccinated index cases (25% for vaccinated vs 23% for unvaccinated)" https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7...
  - pfg 5y ago
    That quote is slightly misleading. It only looks at the SAR of vaccinated index cases. That makes sense because the letter is about the epidemiological relevance of vaccinated people, but it's incorrect to say vaccines had no effect on SAR: The study those figures were taken from also states that "The SAR in household contacts exposed to the delta variant was 25% (95% CI 18–33) for fully vaccinated individuals compared with 38% (24–53) in unvaccinated individuals." A study based on data from Singapore found a similar effect[1]. [1]: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6065(21)00208-X/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6...

johnchristopher 5y ago

Vaccines aren't 100% effective. They are still necessary. What a weird argument you are building, suggesting the vaccine wasn't good for him because he got bad covid and didn't die.

peteradio 5y ago
On the contrary, I find it odd that a case where vaccine did not prevent serious illness (neurological symptoms) is presented as a positive for the vaccine.
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  If you really find this odd then you are either being dishonest and intentionally spreading FUD or dense. I chose to believe you are not stupid. Unfortunately it means you are not yet in a place where you can reassess your beliefs and any rational arguments or facts will only strengthen those beliefs by the sheer need for the psyche to secure itself.
  - peteradio 5y ago
    Its one thing to dismiss it as anecdotal, its another thing to present the anecdote as the opposite of a rational conclusion.
    - johnchristopher 5y ago
      Exactly, and that's why we know vaccines work, because we looked at the overall picture and not at anecdotal data points.
giardini 5y ago
johnchristopher says "Vaccines aren't 100% effective. They are still necessary." Why are vaccines necessary? A cure would be just fine; some drug that stopped covid immediately would be very nice. For example most forms of malaria _had_ a cure with the discovery of quinine. Newer drugs have taken quinine's place. It's a race between the organism and man in any case, whether cure or vaccine.
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  > Why are vaccines necessary? Because we don't have a cure ? > A cure would be just fine; some drug that stopped covid immediately would be very nice. > For example most forms of malaria _had_ a cure with the discovery of quinine. Newer drugs have taken quinine's place. It's a race between the organism and man in any case, whether cure or vaccine. So we don't need vaccines because cures - which we don't have so far - are better. Okay.
  - giardini 5y ago
    johnchristopher says:>"So we don't need vaccines because cures - which we don't have so far - are better."< I didn't say that. What I'm saying is that we should research treatments (non-vaccine cures) as well as vaccines. After all, of our current medical solutions that do work for various ailments, what percentage are vaccines and what percentage are treatments found by experiment or accident (like quinine for malaria)?

EForEndeavour 5y ago

> You got pretty bad covid [...] your anecdote would lead an unbiased person to question how effective really was the vaccine for you If it was this bad with the vaccine, imagine how much worse off he would have surely been without it. He likely suffered the viral equivalent of seatbelt-shaped bruises on his body after a car crash that would have otherwise killed him. > still think the problem lies in not enough vaccinations Where does OP say that?

peteradio 5y ago
The rarity of death in less than 30 year old without comorbidity would be like someone his age falling down the stairs and randomly breaking their neck. To compare this to an unseatbelted car crash is super disingenuous. He's blaming his sickness on the unvaccinated guy he got it from with no hint of irony that he got it despite being vaccinated and potentially spreading it as well.
- piva00 5y ago
  > He's blaming his sickness on the unvaccinated guy he got it from with no hint of irony that he got it despite being vaccinated and potentially spreading it as well. Yes, because all the data shows that infection between vaccinated -> vaccinated is lowered, there is no irony in there. Also because the person in question didn't isolate the moment they felt sick, they continuously wandered around the house and I forced them to isolate after they showed up in front of me, coughing and announcing they "felt sick". So fuck off. I caught it at home, I stayed home, the person lives in the same house, and so I didn't infect anyone else. You have a pretty annoying and uncivil attitude, not sure what triggers you about the vaccine talk but you have an axe to grind and you are piling on my anecdote to push whatever view you have without backing it up, I will stop engaging because I surely don't see any point in trying to hold civility towards you. Have a good weekend, hope you find better ways to spend your energy.

piva00 5y ago

I don't think I got pretty bad COVID, I know at least two people who died from COVID back in my home country (Brazil), one around 50 years old, another one was 35. I didn't have any cough or shortness of breath, there was nothing in the sense of "pretty bad COVID", this was a very mild infection. Even more when I compare to the person who infected me, 4 years older than me and still coughing their brains out after 2 weeks with it, including blood in their cough for a couple days. So I'm not sure where you are drawing this conclusion from... The vaccine was effective, I didn't infect my girlfriend whom I shared rooms, bed and so on, and I attribute that to both me and her being vaccinated, hers was a month later than mine so I believe she has a higher antibodies count going on. I really, really don't understand what point you are trying to make out of my anecdote, nothing in there draws to your conclusion. EDIT: I believe you have an axe to grind, don't come soapboxing over my anecdote with your own made-up conclusions about what I said. It's dishonest and crummy.

native_samples 5y ago
FYI, it's normal for people living together to not infect each other even without vaccines. SAR has only ever been in the range of 10%-20% ish. Also vaccines haven't managed to alter that.[1] When my girlfriend got COVID (pre-vaccines) she was unable to infect me despite that we were quarantined together for 10 days in close contact, made no effect to reduce contact and she was even cooking for me whilst coughing over the food. [1] "In the UK it was described that secondary attack rates among household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was similar to household contacts exposed to unvaccinated index cases (25% for vaccinated vs 23% for unvaccinated)" https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(21)00258-1/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7...
- pfg 5y ago
  That quote is slightly misleading. It only looks at the SAR of vaccinated index cases. That makes sense because the letter is about the epidemiological relevance of vaccinated people, but it's incorrect to say vaccines had no effect on SAR: The study those figures were taken from also states that "The SAR in household contacts exposed to the delta variant was 25% (95% CI 18–33) for fully vaccinated individuals compared with 38% (24–53) in unvaccinated individuals." A study based on data from Singapore found a similar effect[1]. [1]: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6065(21)00208-X/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6...