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Problem is that you can get booted of those platforms and payment processors. Or they unilaterally change their terms of what kind of content creators they want

by mhitza 5y ago

Problem is that you can get booted of those platforms and payment processors. Or they unilaterally change their terms of what kind of content creators they want on their platform (a la onlyfans wanting to distance themselves from sexual explicit content)

unchocked 5y ago
That’s a feature, which rhymes with the author’s argument: that there are politics and that people decide norms, and whether or not you agree with the decisions, having immutable code just go ahead and enforce/permit/control whatever is a dystopia that we should not want.
- Vetch 5y ago
  Sometimes laws are not just and governments are not aligned with their people. Some examples: sci-hub is not legal in most jurisdictions despite its immense positive benefits. Since being deplatformed, their primary means of receiving donations has been crypto. Then there are the unplatformed (from a global transactions perspective), where the cruel realities of poverty, scams and fraud means the majority are punished as collateral damage for the actions of a minority. Poverty means a cost benefit calculus has deemed fine-grained distinctions are not worth it. I can understand the justifications but still feel it as deeply unfair. When social media are used to highlight and organize protests of corruption, extra judicial killings and more, governments will ban social media and block the financial accounts of anti-corruption organizations. Coupled with being in countries where global transactions are already high friction, crypto provided real benefits. A non-crypto example is having to use VPNs to access certain university websites because its administrators subscribe to a lazy service that has blanket banned IPs from certain countries. Not unlike Tor, it's one of those things whose main use is by criminals in sane regimes but a high positive option in despotic or oppressive ones.
  - captn3m0 5y ago
    The unstated argument here is whether the extra-judicial quasi-ethical use-cases for crypto (donations for SciHub, payments for NSFW artists) are worth the current valuations in the space. I don’t think so. Most NFTs I’ve seen are not for art that would get booted off Patreon or DeviantArt. Is the additional complexity and weirdness and loss of legal protections worth the extra hassles that crypto brings even when existing payment workflows work well - I say no, but we’ll find out.
    - Vetch 5y ago
      Is it worth the current violations? My personal opinion is no, but the price movements also don't make any sense to me. But I also feel I might value it more than you? As it depends on where you're coming from. There are parts of the world (like where I live) where there is no meaningful sense of legal protections or rule of law. Things hang together because people are in general, not that foolish or malicious. The added complexities, risk, instabilities can be more worth paying given for example, heavy inflation (for such people participation is not speculative as price stability is more important than rise) or friction in global financial transactions.
  - unchocked 5y ago
    You’re not wrong, you’re just missing the point. It’s that laws should be enforced by people, not by machines.
    - Vetch 5y ago
      The laws aren't enforced by machines, merely augmented or providing more options for the global disenfranchised (such as access to scientific material or easier access to global markets).
rhtgrg 5y ago
I just want to point out that you can also get booted off crypto platforms under the right circumstances. This is what happened to Ethereum after the infamous $60MM hack. [0] The key difference is only that the community has to agree, rather than a single entity — however this isn't strictly true, since founders and core devs hold outsized sway. [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/ethereum-hack-blockchain-fork-bitcoin-1.3719009 https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/ethereum-hack-blockchain-for...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
egypturnash 5y ago
Payment processors wanting to distance themselves from porn is a constant fight and I think it's really telling that porn has not embraced blockchains, crypto, or NFTs as a way to get paid.
- LewisVerstappen 5y ago
  >I think it's really telling that porn has not embraced blockchains, crypto, or NFTs as a way to get paid Uh, how do you think Pornhub accepts payments? Crypto has been the only option for paying for Pornhub Premium for several months now. (I know this because I read a news article on it, just to be clear) Edit Sorry, ACH is also an option, my mistake. But Pornhub Premium's sign up page says they don't accept credit cards.
  - senko 5y ago
    I applaud your propriety, but it looks like your information is incorrect. Their FAQ states they accept credit cards from Probiller: https://www.probiller.com/ https://www.probiller.com/ Edit: and it doesn't mention crypto.
    - mckeed 5y ago
      The signup page says "Unfortunately we are unable to accept credit cards at this moment" and has ACH/SEPA and Cryptocurrency as the payment options.
  - e0 5y ago
    One can also pay through ACH, so it's not like they're completely cut off from the traditional financial systems. It would be interesting to know what percentage of their users use each payment method.
    - LewisVerstappen 5y ago
      Sure, and to be clear, the payment experience with cryptocurrency is still pretty terrible. That being said, it's getting better quite quickly and you're now seeing big tech players like Stripe enter the market.[1] [1] - https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/13/payments-giant-stripe-says-its-re-entering-the-crypto-market/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/13/payments-giant-stripe-says...
jazzyjackson 5y ago
It may be that a plurality of people prefer a web where rules may exclude those people lacking a certain civility, leaving web3 to be a haven of the banned and otherwise unhostable. Freenet has been doing that for 20 years now so its unclear that crypto really adds anything to the basic social dilemmas of sharing platforms with people you wouldn’t give the time of day to. sidebar but onlyfans banning porn may have just been a genius marketing move that made them a household name - a porn site banning porn, what late night host could resist?
mmcgaha 5y ago
Around 20 years ago, I registered my account on a web based simulation game by putting a check in the mail. Around 7 years ago I verified an account by putting a dollar in an envelope and putting it in the mail. I am not sure why no one is putting their snail mail address on the site any more because this can still work.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

by mhitza 5y ago

unchocked 5y ago

That’s a feature, which rhymes with the author’s argument: that there are politics and that people decide norms, and whether or not you agree with the decisions, having immutable code just go ahead and enforce/permit/control whatever is a dystopia that we should not want.

Vetch 5y ago
Sometimes laws are not just and governments are not aligned with their people. Some examples: sci-hub is not legal in most jurisdictions despite its immense positive benefits. Since being deplatformed, their primary means of receiving donations has been crypto. Then there are the unplatformed (from a global transactions perspective), where the cruel realities of poverty, scams and fraud means the majority are punished as collateral damage for the actions of a minority. Poverty means a cost benefit calculus has deemed fine-grained distinctions are not worth it. I can understand the justifications but still feel it as deeply unfair. When social media are used to highlight and organize protests of corruption, extra judicial killings and more, governments will ban social media and block the financial accounts of anti-corruption organizations. Coupled with being in countries where global transactions are already high friction, crypto provided real benefits. A non-crypto example is having to use VPNs to access certain university websites because its administrators subscribe to a lazy service that has blanket banned IPs from certain countries. Not unlike Tor, it's one of those things whose main use is by criminals in sane regimes but a high positive option in despotic or oppressive ones.
- captn3m0 5y ago
  The unstated argument here is whether the extra-judicial quasi-ethical use-cases for crypto (donations for SciHub, payments for NSFW artists) are worth the current valuations in the space. I don’t think so. Most NFTs I’ve seen are not for art that would get booted off Patreon or DeviantArt. Is the additional complexity and weirdness and loss of legal protections worth the extra hassles that crypto brings even when existing payment workflows work well - I say no, but we’ll find out.
  - Vetch 5y ago
    Is it worth the current violations? My personal opinion is no, but the price movements also don't make any sense to me. But I also feel I might value it more than you? As it depends on where you're coming from. There are parts of the world (like where I live) where there is no meaningful sense of legal protections or rule of law. Things hang together because people are in general, not that foolish or malicious. The added complexities, risk, instabilities can be more worth paying given for example, heavy inflation (for such people participation is not speculative as price stability is more important than rise) or friction in global financial transactions.
- unchocked 5y ago
  You’re not wrong, you’re just missing the point. It’s that laws should be enforced by people, not by machines.
  - Vetch 5y ago
    The laws aren't enforced by machines, merely augmented or providing more options for the global disenfranchised (such as access to scientific material or easier access to global markets).

rhtgrg 5y ago

I just want to point out that you can also get booted off crypto platforms under the right circumstances. This is what happened to Ethereum after the infamous $60MM hack. [0] The key difference is only that the community has to agree, rather than a single entity — however this isn't strictly true, since founders and core devs hold outsized sway. [0] https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/ethereum-hack-blockchain-fork-bitcoin-1.3719009 https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/ethereum-hack-blockchain-for...

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

egypturnash 5y ago

Payment processors wanting to distance themselves from porn is a constant fight and I think it's really telling that porn has not embraced blockchains, crypto, or NFTs as a way to get paid.

LewisVerstappen 5y ago
>I think it's really telling that porn has not embraced blockchains, crypto, or NFTs as a way to get paid Uh, how do you think Pornhub accepts payments? Crypto has been the only option for paying for Pornhub Premium for several months now. (I know this because I read a news article on it, just to be clear) Edit Sorry, ACH is also an option, my mistake. But Pornhub Premium's sign up page says they don't accept credit cards.
- senko 5y ago
  I applaud your propriety, but it looks like your information is incorrect. Their FAQ states they accept credit cards from Probiller: https://www.probiller.com/ https://www.probiller.com/ Edit: and it doesn't mention crypto.
  - mckeed 5y ago
    The signup page says "Unfortunately we are unable to accept credit cards at this moment" and has ACH/SEPA and Cryptocurrency as the payment options.
- e0 5y ago
  One can also pay through ACH, so it's not like they're completely cut off from the traditional financial systems. It would be interesting to know what percentage of their users use each payment method.
  - LewisVerstappen 5y ago
    Sure, and to be clear, the payment experience with cryptocurrency is still pretty terrible. That being said, it's getting better quite quickly and you're now seeing big tech players like Stripe enter the market.[1] [1] - https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/13/payments-giant-stripe-says-its-re-entering-the-crypto-market/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/10/13/payments-giant-stripe-says...

jazzyjackson 5y ago

It may be that a plurality of people prefer a web where rules may exclude those people lacking a certain civility, leaving web3 to be a haven of the banned and otherwise unhostable. Freenet has been doing that for 20 years now so its unclear that crypto really adds anything to the basic social dilemmas of sharing platforms with people you wouldn’t give the time of day to. sidebar but onlyfans banning porn may have just been a genius marketing move that made them a household name - a porn site banning porn, what late night host could resist?

mmcgaha 5y ago

Around 20 years ago, I registered my account on a web based simulation game by putting a check in the mail. Around 7 years ago I verified an account by putting a dollar in an envelope and putting it in the mail. I am not sure why no one is putting their snail mail address on the site any more because this can still work.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]