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One of the legal guidelines for whether or not someone is a contractor (vs an employee) is whether they provide their own tools. It’s not a hard rule. It’s jus

One of the legal guidelines for whether or not someone is a contractor (vs an employee) is whether they provide their own tools. It’s not a hard rule. It’s just one of a number of tests. But contractors are generally expected to provide their own tools.

shabble 5y ago
You could reasonably invoice an upfront tooling cost ("isolated development workstation to meet customer IT policy requirements. Apple Macbook Foo, $BIGNUM") If you want to be really cheeky, could get some value-added margin on it too, and as a bonus, AIUI it would be yours to keep after the engagement, rather than having to return hardware they've assigned to you. Might be tough to get past finance though, unless they really want that certification :)
- ganoushoreilly 5y ago
  We've got a few machines we've inherited this way. For one client they needed confirmation that we had a sanitized infrastructure for our pentest and that we captured and logged all traffic to and fro. We billed them for the equipment and network link etc. Upon completion of the project we provided a certified copy of data destruction in accordance with their policies / guidelines and were left with a bunch of stuff. Scored two GPU cracking rigs, couple laptops, and some Cisco gear. I didn't complain. Granted now those rigs are a bit dated, but at the time 1080's were hard to get during the last mining rush so they definitely weren't cheap.
RileyJames 5y ago
But in that case I’d agree with the OP. I’m not installing what ever you want on my hardware. I probably was more of a “temporary employee” than a contractor. But what’s the difference at that point? I was paid more than the value of entitlements as cash. It suited both parties, and was mutually agreed. In hindsight, having them provide the hardware, and then handing it back at the end of the engagement would be my preference. It reduced any risks for them and me. Tho I can easily imagine on/off or short infrequent contracting scenarios that this would not work for.
- learc83 5y ago
  > I probably was more of a “temporary employee” than a contractor. But what’s the difference at that point? If you’re a temporary employee, the employer is responsible for payroll taxes, and has additional obligations to you (depending on the state). You’re obligations— both to your employer and to the IRS—are different as well. I’m addition to unlawfully skirting regulations, misclassifying an employee as a contractor is essentially stealing from the employee by reducing the company’s tax burden and increasing the employee’s.

shabble 5y ago

You could reasonably invoice an upfront tooling cost ("isolated development workstation to meet customer IT policy requirements. Apple Macbook Foo, $BIGNUM") If you want to be really cheeky, could get some value-added margin on it too, and as a bonus, AIUI it would be yours to keep after the engagement, rather than having to return hardware they've assigned to you. Might be tough to get past finance though, unless they really want that certification :)

ganoushoreilly 5y ago
We've got a few machines we've inherited this way. For one client they needed confirmation that we had a sanitized infrastructure for our pentest and that we captured and logged all traffic to and fro. We billed them for the equipment and network link etc. Upon completion of the project we provided a certified copy of data destruction in accordance with their policies / guidelines and were left with a bunch of stuff. Scored two GPU cracking rigs, couple laptops, and some Cisco gear. I didn't complain. Granted now those rigs are a bit dated, but at the time 1080's were hard to get during the last mining rush so they definitely weren't cheap.

RileyJames 5y ago

But in that case I’d agree with the OP. I’m not installing what ever you want on my hardware. I probably was more of a “temporary employee” than a contractor. But what’s the difference at that point? I was paid more than the value of entitlements as cash. It suited both parties, and was mutually agreed. In hindsight, having them provide the hardware, and then handing it back at the end of the engagement would be my preference. It reduced any risks for them and me. Tho I can easily imagine on/off or short infrequent contracting scenarios that this would not work for.

learc83 5y ago
> I probably was more of a “temporary employee” than a contractor. But what’s the difference at that point? If you’re a temporary employee, the employer is responsible for payroll taxes, and has additional obligations to you (depending on the state). You’re obligations— both to your employer and to the IRS—are different as well. I’m addition to unlawfully skirting regulations, misclassifying an employee as a contractor is essentially stealing from the employee by reducing the company’s tax burden and increasing the employee’s.