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> Vaccine mandates taking qualified healthcare workers out of the workforce is one of the biggest own-goals I've seen. OR, we've filtered to the people that ac

> Vaccine mandates taking qualified healthcare workers out of the workforce is one of the biggest own-goals I've seen. OR, we've filtered to the people that actually believe in medical science, ones that are willing to do what needs to be done to prevent the spread of contagious disease. > Why haven't we increased hospital capacity to deal with a highly transmissible disease we knew was never going away? Lockdowns, mandates, personal freedom restrictions are all just cover for not handling the basic blocking and tackling of fortifying our medical systems. All that money and none of it increased the ability to care for COVID patients. What a shame. Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Your freedom ends where my nose begins.

zeven7 5y ago
Devils advocate: If these are people that work around sick people all the time, couldn't many of them have already contracted and defeated Covid before the vaccines were available? Doesn't that offer a decent level of immunity (something close to what the vaccine offers)? And don't those people already have a good understanding of how Covid affects them individually? It's hard to argue such people need vaccines or else they don't "believe in medical science".
noodles_nomore 5y ago
I'm happy that you at least acknowledge that it's about belief.
peteradio 5y ago
Its going to affect how people view entering into the medical workforce when they effectively sign up for whatever the fuck medical experiments the government is pissing themselves about at the time.
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  What medical experiments are you referring to? RNA vaccines didn't happen overnight, billions were spent to accelerate clinical trials, millions have been vaccinated and we don't see much of secondary effects.
  - native_samples 5y ago
    mRNA vaccines did basically happen overnight, yeah. As recently as 2017 they couldn't progress beyond animal trials because all mRNA based drugs became toxic after multiple doses. Better hope they nailed that problem, right? As for trials, there were a lot of serious problems with the trials. A girl in the children's Pfizer trial who was maimed so badly she's now confined to a wheelchair was recorded as having "abdominal pain". The trial participants had to report adverse events using an app that had a pre-set list of possible side effects, with no way to enter any others. The trials reported 95% effectiveness and no need for any boosters, which turned out to be false almost immediately once the trials ended and the vaccines went to market. The trials didn't measure hospitalization and couldn't show any improvement in mortality. Etc. Maybe you have doubts and you'd like to review the underlying data? FDA only needed 100 days to read it and approve, but to release those docs to the public will take more than 50 years. Reality is that signing up to be a healthcare worker, now means you are at the mercy of government agencies that have a track record of bad medical practices like vaccinating people who don't need it. Not a pleasant place to be.
    - johnchristopher 5y ago
      > mRNA vaccines did basically happen overnight, yeah. As recently as 2017 they couldn't progress beyond animal trials because all mRNA based drugs became toxic after multiple doses. Better hope they nailed that problem, right? Please, provide some sources. A quick google search led me to https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/ https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/ but this excerpt is in moderna's favor: > But the Crigler-Najjar treatment has been indefinitely delayed, an Alexion spokeswoman told STAT. It never proved safe enough to test in humans, according to several former Moderna employees and collaborators who worked closely on the project. Unable to press forward with that technology, Moderna has had to focus instead on developing a handful of vaccines, turning to a less lucrative field that might not justify the company’s nearly $5 billion valuation. > “It’s all vaccines right now, and vaccines are a loss-leader,” said one former Moderna manager. “Moderna right now is a multibillion-dollar vaccines company, and I don’t see how that holds up.” Considering work on mRNA vaccines started in 1989 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine#Early_research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine#Early_research I'd say you are wrong. 2004 and 2008 saw the first use in a humane body of mrna transfer into the cell. Moderna may have hit a roadblock for their cancer therapy in 2017 but that doesn't mean they started working from scratch on mrna vaccines in 2017. > As for trials, there were a lot of serious problems with the trials. A girl in the children's Pfizer trial who was maimed so badly she's now confined to a wheelchair was recorded as having "abdominal pain". I am surprised antivax aren't running with this story. I read a bit about it and among major outlets only Fox News ran the story. But here's the thing: one case ? > The trials reported 95% effectiveness and no need for any boosters, which turned out to be false almost immediately once the trials ended and the vaccines went to market. Are you referring to the second dose as a booster ? I seem to remember moderna and pfizer always were 2-doses vaccines. And there were headlines and talk about whether or not it would provide a lifetime protection or regular doses. Against wuhan strains the vaccines held up their 95% protection. So what exactly is false there ? > Maybe you have doubts and you'd like to review the underlying data? FDA only needed 100 days to read it and approve, but to release those docs to the public will take more than 50 years. > Reality is that signing up to be a healthcare worker, now means you are at the mercy of government agencies that have a track record of bad medical practices like vaccinating people who don't need it. Not a pleasant place to be. I don't know what track record of bad medical practices like vaccinating people who don't need it you are referring to. Previous vaccination campaign or covid vaccination campaign ? Anyway, there are other vaccines if you rather go with J&J and Az which are traditional technologies.
disambiguation 5y ago
Are you implying these workers have done more harm than good? Right after they bore the brunt of the pandemic and were applauded as heros? All its filtered for is compliance and those fearful to lose their jobs. > Your freedom ends where my nose begins. I know where your nose is. I don't know where this pandemic ends. Diseases are not free license for governments to do whatever they want for as long as they want. 20 years after 9/11 we still live with the consequences of the "war on terror". Let's make sure that doesn't happen again.
- ASalazarMX 5y ago
  > Diseases are not free license for governments to do whatever they want for as long as they want. Excuse me, but governments have the power to suspend individual rights during major disasters, like war, insurrection, terrorism, etc... oh wow, look, epidemics too! Feel fortunate, at least they didn't decree martial law, or better, hefty fines.
  - disambiguation 5y ago
    I do feel fortunate I don't live in a totalitarian society. I feel gratitude for those who fought to make it possible. I hope our descendents get to feel the same way.
    - ASalazarMX 5y ago
      It's a public health issue, not the British invading USA. There's zero need to introduce politics into a worldwide health disaster. If you so love human rights and freedom, you could start by supporting real government overreach like abortion outlawing, inhuman treatment of immigrants, offshore prisons where human rights are ignored, gerrymandering to twist votes towards a single party, insider stock trading from senators, and a long etc. Fighting vaccines and hygienic measures during a global pandemic won't make you an American hero.
      - disambiguation 5y ago

zeven7 5y ago

Devils advocate: If these are people that work around sick people all the time, couldn't many of them have already contracted and defeated Covid before the vaccines were available? Doesn't that offer a decent level of immunity (something close to what the vaccine offers)? And don't those people already have a good understanding of how Covid affects them individually? It's hard to argue such people need vaccines or else they don't "believe in medical science".

noodles_nomore 5y ago

I'm happy that you at least acknowledge that it's about belief.

peteradio 5y ago

Its going to affect how people view entering into the medical workforce when they effectively sign up for whatever the fuck medical experiments the government is pissing themselves about at the time.

johnchristopher 5y ago
What medical experiments are you referring to? RNA vaccines didn't happen overnight, billions were spent to accelerate clinical trials, millions have been vaccinated and we don't see much of secondary effects.
- native_samples 5y ago
  mRNA vaccines did basically happen overnight, yeah. As recently as 2017 they couldn't progress beyond animal trials because all mRNA based drugs became toxic after multiple doses. Better hope they nailed that problem, right? As for trials, there were a lot of serious problems with the trials. A girl in the children's Pfizer trial who was maimed so badly she's now confined to a wheelchair was recorded as having "abdominal pain". The trial participants had to report adverse events using an app that had a pre-set list of possible side effects, with no way to enter any others. The trials reported 95% effectiveness and no need for any boosters, which turned out to be false almost immediately once the trials ended and the vaccines went to market. The trials didn't measure hospitalization and couldn't show any improvement in mortality. Etc. Maybe you have doubts and you'd like to review the underlying data? FDA only needed 100 days to read it and approve, but to release those docs to the public will take more than 50 years. Reality is that signing up to be a healthcare worker, now means you are at the mercy of government agencies that have a track record of bad medical practices like vaccinating people who don't need it. Not a pleasant place to be.
  - johnchristopher 5y ago
    > mRNA vaccines did basically happen overnight, yeah. As recently as 2017 they couldn't progress beyond animal trials because all mRNA based drugs became toxic after multiple doses. Better hope they nailed that problem, right? Please, provide some sources. A quick google search led me to https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/ https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/ but this excerpt is in moderna's favor: > But the Crigler-Najjar treatment has been indefinitely delayed, an Alexion spokeswoman told STAT. It never proved safe enough to test in humans, according to several former Moderna employees and collaborators who worked closely on the project. Unable to press forward with that technology, Moderna has had to focus instead on developing a handful of vaccines, turning to a less lucrative field that might not justify the company’s nearly $5 billion valuation. > “It’s all vaccines right now, and vaccines are a loss-leader,” said one former Moderna manager. “Moderna right now is a multibillion-dollar vaccines company, and I don’t see how that holds up.” Considering work on mRNA vaccines started in 1989 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine#Early_research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine#Early_research I'd say you are wrong. 2004 and 2008 saw the first use in a humane body of mrna transfer into the cell. Moderna may have hit a roadblock for their cancer therapy in 2017 but that doesn't mean they started working from scratch on mrna vaccines in 2017. > As for trials, there were a lot of serious problems with the trials. A girl in the children's Pfizer trial who was maimed so badly she's now confined to a wheelchair was recorded as having "abdominal pain". I am surprised antivax aren't running with this story. I read a bit about it and among major outlets only Fox News ran the story. But here's the thing: one case ? > The trials reported 95% effectiveness and no need for any boosters, which turned out to be false almost immediately once the trials ended and the vaccines went to market. Are you referring to the second dose as a booster ? I seem to remember moderna and pfizer always were 2-doses vaccines. And there were headlines and talk about whether or not it would provide a lifetime protection or regular doses. Against wuhan strains the vaccines held up their 95% protection. So what exactly is false there ? > Maybe you have doubts and you'd like to review the underlying data? FDA only needed 100 days to read it and approve, but to release those docs to the public will take more than 50 years. > Reality is that signing up to be a healthcare worker, now means you are at the mercy of government agencies that have a track record of bad medical practices like vaccinating people who don't need it. Not a pleasant place to be. I don't know what track record of bad medical practices like vaccinating people who don't need it you are referring to. Previous vaccination campaign or covid vaccination campaign ? Anyway, there are other vaccines if you rather go with J&J and Az which are traditional technologies.

disambiguation 5y ago

Are you implying these workers have done more harm than good? Right after they bore the brunt of the pandemic and were applauded as heros? All its filtered for is compliance and those fearful to lose their jobs. > Your freedom ends where my nose begins. I know where your nose is. I don't know where this pandemic ends. Diseases are not free license for governments to do whatever they want for as long as they want. 20 years after 9/11 we still live with the consequences of the "war on terror". Let's make sure that doesn't happen again.

ASalazarMX 5y ago
> Diseases are not free license for governments to do whatever they want for as long as they want. Excuse me, but governments have the power to suspend individual rights during major disasters, like war, insurrection, terrorism, etc... oh wow, look, epidemics too! Feel fortunate, at least they didn't decree martial law, or better, hefty fines.
- disambiguation 5y ago
  I do feel fortunate I don't live in a totalitarian society. I feel gratitude for those who fought to make it possible. I hope our descendents get to feel the same way.
  - ASalazarMX 5y ago
    It's a public health issue, not the British invading USA. There's zero need to introduce politics into a worldwide health disaster. If you so love human rights and freedom, you could start by supporting real government overreach like abortion outlawing, inhuman treatment of immigrants, offshore prisons where human rights are ignored, gerrymandering to twist votes towards a single party, insider stock trading from senators, and a long etc. Fighting vaccines and hygienic measures during a global pandemic won't make you an American hero.
    - disambiguation 5y ago