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Because in lots of countries all over the world, hospitals are still at or over capacity, making live miserable for those lying there, waiting to get there for

Because in lots of countries all over the world, hospitals are still at or over capacity, making live miserable for those lying there, waiting to get there for other treatments and last but not least, for those working under enormous stress there.

jMyles 5y ago
1) Where? Where specifically are patients being turned away today from care due to overcrowding due to COVID-19? 2) If there are clear answers to #1, why in tarnation isn't our response, "OK, we need to improve the health care systems in these marginalized communities?" Why instead would we even consider repeating the failed, class-based horizontal interdiction efforts which have terrorized these same communities and cut them off from their centers of support (eg, schools)?
- deleted 5y ago
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- chinathrow 5y ago
  1) Are you seriously asking this? Europe sees huge backlogs of delayed surgeries, e.g. of cancer patient treatments. https://www.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/covid-scotland-swift-action-needed-to-prevent-cancer-catastrophe-as-nhs-fails-to-meet-target-3494251 https://www.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/covid-scotland-s... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/26/late-diagnosis-of-breast-cancer-rises-as-nhs-struggles-in-covid-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/26/late-diagnos... 2) Because you can't improve health care systems within a short time frame. People are quitting their health care jobs in Europe in big numbers due to being overworked due to the pandemic.
  - jMyles 5y ago
    1) Yes I'm seriously asking this. And administratively delayed 'elective' surgeries are orthogonal to patients being turned away after presenting with illness. I don't deny the former is happening, but it is not clear that it is related to capacity. 2) Yes you absolutely can; it has been done with great success many times in epidemics, including this one. Moreover, longer-term improvements to health care remain an imperative if indeed a completely predictable respiratory pathogen can so easily overwhelm capacity in marginalized communities.
- alanfranz 5y ago
  1) in Italy it’s happening already. Northern Italy, mind you. Non urgent hospital activity is basically suspended, and even some urgent surgeries are being postponed because there’re not enough doctors and nurses. It’s a mix of covid and antivaxx philosophy though, not just covid, some doctors and nurses who haven’t vaccinated have been suspended and it’s hard to find replacements right now.
- johnchristopher 5y ago
  > 1) Where? Where specifically are patients being turned away today from care due to overcrowding due to COVID-19? https://www.rtbf.be/info/societe/detail_coronavirus-des-hopitaux-a-nouveau-contraints-de-reporter-des-soins-non-urgents?id=10881301 https://www.rtbf.be/info/societe/detail_coronavirus-des-hopi... > Not all hospitals are there yet, but all are tearing their hair out to deal with the situation because it is such a headache. A Chinese puzzle, or a tetris, except that it is not a game. “We have already been making an effort to smooth out the programming for a few weeks,” explains Fabrice Chariot, anesthesiologist, and coordinator of the operating room of the CHR of the Citadel, to avoid having too many operations on the same day. We are now starting to postpone cases. ” > 2) If there are clear answers to #1, why in tarnation isn't our response, "OK, we need to improve the health care systems in these marginalized communities?" Why instead would we even consider repeating the failed, class-based horizontal interdiction efforts which have terrorized these same communities and cut them off from their centers of support (eg, schools)? What ?
omosubi 5y ago
As far as I can tell developed countries largely aren't dealing with hospital overcrowding. If I don't go to an in person event in a large American city, will this prevent cases from occurring in say, eastern Europe? In the aggregate and at the margin, maybe, but this is a highly dubious claim.

jMyles 5y ago

1) Where? Where specifically are patients being turned away today from care due to overcrowding due to COVID-19? 2) If there are clear answers to #1, why in tarnation isn't our response, "OK, we need to improve the health care systems in these marginalized communities?" Why instead would we even consider repeating the failed, class-based horizontal interdiction efforts which have terrorized these same communities and cut them off from their centers of support (eg, schools)?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
chinathrow 5y ago
1) Are you seriously asking this? Europe sees huge backlogs of delayed surgeries, e.g. of cancer patient treatments. https://www.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/covid-scotland-swift-action-needed-to-prevent-cancer-catastrophe-as-nhs-fails-to-meet-target-3494251 https://www.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/covid-scotland-s... https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/26/late-diagnosis-of-breast-cancer-rises-as-nhs-struggles-in-covid-crisis https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/nov/26/late-diagnos... 2) Because you can't improve health care systems within a short time frame. People are quitting their health care jobs in Europe in big numbers due to being overworked due to the pandemic.
- jMyles 5y ago
  1) Yes I'm seriously asking this. And administratively delayed 'elective' surgeries are orthogonal to patients being turned away after presenting with illness. I don't deny the former is happening, but it is not clear that it is related to capacity. 2) Yes you absolutely can; it has been done with great success many times in epidemics, including this one. Moreover, longer-term improvements to health care remain an imperative if indeed a completely predictable respiratory pathogen can so easily overwhelm capacity in marginalized communities.
alanfranz 5y ago
1) in Italy it’s happening already. Northern Italy, mind you. Non urgent hospital activity is basically suspended, and even some urgent surgeries are being postponed because there’re not enough doctors and nurses. It’s a mix of covid and antivaxx philosophy though, not just covid, some doctors and nurses who haven’t vaccinated have been suspended and it’s hard to find replacements right now.
johnchristopher 5y ago
> 1) Where? Where specifically are patients being turned away today from care due to overcrowding due to COVID-19? https://www.rtbf.be/info/societe/detail_coronavirus-des-hopitaux-a-nouveau-contraints-de-reporter-des-soins-non-urgents?id=10881301 https://www.rtbf.be/info/societe/detail_coronavirus-des-hopi... > Not all hospitals are there yet, but all are tearing their hair out to deal with the situation because it is such a headache. A Chinese puzzle, or a tetris, except that it is not a game. “We have already been making an effort to smooth out the programming for a few weeks,” explains Fabrice Chariot, anesthesiologist, and coordinator of the operating room of the CHR of the Citadel, to avoid having too many operations on the same day. We are now starting to postpone cases. ” > 2) If there are clear answers to #1, why in tarnation isn't our response, "OK, we need to improve the health care systems in these marginalized communities?" Why instead would we even consider repeating the failed, class-based horizontal interdiction efforts which have terrorized these same communities and cut them off from their centers of support (eg, schools)? What ?

omosubi 5y ago

As far as I can tell developed countries largely aren't dealing with hospital overcrowding. If I don't go to an in person event in a large American city, will this prevent cases from occurring in say, eastern Europe? In the aggregate and at the margin, maybe, but this is a highly dubious claim.