5 ms·

I can't speak for the whole of Europe and I might be a sheep - but at least in Scandinavia, these far right parties are more of a symptom of the mainstream part

I can't speak for the whole of Europe and I might be a sheep - but at least in Scandinavia, these far right parties are more of a symptom of the mainstream parties refusal to talk about problems related to immigration combined with US cultural influence. Sweden is no.1 in Europe when it comes to gun violence right now and only last year non-right political parties started discussing current crime waves link to integration / immigration. It's not surprising that the far right - hard on crime and hard on immigrants thrive in this political climate.

tsimionescu 5y ago
Hard on crime and hard on immigration IS the far right. Sure, if the old parties had veered far-right, new far-right parties wouldn't have shown up. The problem are not the parties, the problem are the policies. Kicking immigrants out or licking them up will not improve the life of the local lower class, despite all the promises. It may improve the life of the rich, who won't have to fear bring mugged. But the reasons why immigration is happening, and why immigrants remain poor, will either continue (no one wants to do the dirty jobs) or mine too the local lower class (let's pray locals less so that they are competitive with immigrants).
- kukallan 5y ago
  I fully agree. I don't agree with far right policies either and the situation in Sweden breaks my heart. But I'm not surprised that the far right is getting traction in a climate where other parties have been ignoring the problems for so long, and I don't think "efforts to unify the underclass completely derailed by this ridiculous race war" applies to the political climate and right wing parties in Sweden or Scandinavia as a whole as of right now.
- newfriend 5y ago
  Ceasing the funnel of endless low-skill, wage-depressing job competitors absolutely would improve the life of the lower class. They also have to deal with increased crime, it's not a uniquely "rich" problem. These parties are growing in popularity because it's a reaction to a real problem that locals are witnessing as their communities are changed for the worse. Back in the 80s/90s, Sweden was known for bikini teams and ABBA. Now it's known for rape gangs. Sad!
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    Poor neighborhoods always have more crime than rich neighborhoods. This doesn't particularly change if the poor are native or immigrants. The real problem is wage theft keeping large numbers of people poor. Whether immigrants or natives, the fact that you can work your whole life for a mega corporation and barely have money to eat is the problem.
- jlawson 5y ago
  You've got the class relationship with immigrants backwards. Poor people are more likely to be victims of low-level crimes than rich people for a variety of reasons. When criminal immigrants come in, it's poor people they victimize. It's also poor people who must compete with unskilled immigrants for jobs. Rich people benefit from low-skilled immigration. They can isolate themselves physically from the bad immigrant neighborhoods, but also hire those immigrants to provide services for them. The immigrants will push down unskilled labor prices by the very simple laws of supply and demand. The immigrants will not compete on the labor market with the rich. This is why the rich in the modern world have always been the ones pushing for more immigration, and the poor have always pushed against. Upper class businessmen and media people strut around like they're MLK but they really just want to pay their maid and gardener less.
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    Nothing you're describing would change if we replace "immigrant" with "poor person". This is all a problem of minimum wages, employment law enforcement and others, not a problem of immigration. For as long as people are allowed to hire others while.not paying for a minimally decent life, this problem will continue existing.

tsimionescu 5y ago

Hard on crime and hard on immigration IS the far right. Sure, if the old parties had veered far-right, new far-right parties wouldn't have shown up. The problem are not the parties, the problem are the policies. Kicking immigrants out or licking them up will not improve the life of the local lower class, despite all the promises. It may improve the life of the rich, who won't have to fear bring mugged. But the reasons why immigration is happening, and why immigrants remain poor, will either continue (no one wants to do the dirty jobs) or mine too the local lower class (let's pray locals less so that they are competitive with immigrants).

kukallan 5y ago
I fully agree. I don't agree with far right policies either and the situation in Sweden breaks my heart. But I'm not surprised that the far right is getting traction in a climate where other parties have been ignoring the problems for so long, and I don't think "efforts to unify the underclass completely derailed by this ridiculous race war" applies to the political climate and right wing parties in Sweden or Scandinavia as a whole as of right now.
newfriend 5y ago
Ceasing the funnel of endless low-skill, wage-depressing job competitors absolutely would improve the life of the lower class. They also have to deal with increased crime, it's not a uniquely "rich" problem. These parties are growing in popularity because it's a reaction to a real problem that locals are witnessing as their communities are changed for the worse. Back in the 80s/90s, Sweden was known for bikini teams and ABBA. Now it's known for rape gangs. Sad!
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  Poor neighborhoods always have more crime than rich neighborhoods. This doesn't particularly change if the poor are native or immigrants. The real problem is wage theft keeping large numbers of people poor. Whether immigrants or natives, the fact that you can work your whole life for a mega corporation and barely have money to eat is the problem.
jlawson 5y ago
You've got the class relationship with immigrants backwards. Poor people are more likely to be victims of low-level crimes than rich people for a variety of reasons. When criminal immigrants come in, it's poor people they victimize. It's also poor people who must compete with unskilled immigrants for jobs. Rich people benefit from low-skilled immigration. They can isolate themselves physically from the bad immigrant neighborhoods, but also hire those immigrants to provide services for them. The immigrants will push down unskilled labor prices by the very simple laws of supply and demand. The immigrants will not compete on the labor market with the rich. This is why the rich in the modern world have always been the ones pushing for more immigration, and the poor have always pushed against. Upper class businessmen and media people strut around like they're MLK but they really just want to pay their maid and gardener less.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  Nothing you're describing would change if we replace "immigrant" with "poor person". This is all a problem of minimum wages, employment law enforcement and others, not a problem of immigration. For as long as people are allowed to hire others while.not paying for a minimally decent life, this problem will continue existing.