15 ms·

What good is new tech if you cannot afford to buy a house or a new'ish car for the minimum wage, even if you live frugal and save?

passerby1 5y ago
Are metaverse gonna replace lack of owning a house (and travel) soon? /s
- me_me_me 5y ago
  Don't even jest, I heard something similar told at work without the /s part.
  - erwincoumans 5y ago
    That sounds similar to The Matrix.
- helpfulmandrill 5y ago
  Maybe you could just live in a coffin and jack into a more spacious metaverse simulation of an apartment /s
  - throw1234651234 5y ago
    lol, this will actually happen.
    - helpfulmandrill 5y ago
      An apartment that comes with total surveillance. Like Alexa on steroids. How do we get off this train?
  - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
    You just described japan.
nickpp 5y ago
For example, it lets you live in a less expensive city and work remotely wherever you want. Also it allows you to learn and raise your earning potential. Finally modern transportation options less expensive than cars like e-bikes and e-scooters allow you to commute easier.
- thinknboutstuff 5y ago
  Genuinely curious, are you or were you lower class in America? Sure, some people can benefit from remote work. But remote work is also not typically minimum wage. And to access those higher wage jobs, you’ll certainly need access to capital to invest in education. Have you considered using an e-bike in the US? This could only be feasible in a minority of situations… It sounds like a techie meme of what life could be, but is certainly not.
  - nickpp 5y ago
    I am not American. I come from zero money but lucked out with a stable family that highly valued education. They sacrificed a lot for it but they strongly believed that you can improve your lot in life through hard work and perseverance. I share those believes and am living proof they work.
- selfhifive 5y ago
  Thus funneling more wealth to the already wealthy. That's the point. The average is okay but the distribution of wealth is messed up.
- confidantlake 5y ago
  90% of the US you would get killed on your commute if you tried to use an e-bike or e-scooter.
ricardobayes 5y ago
I saaw that happening in Budapest. Every young person has a new iPhone and wearing new sneakers, but living with parents.
- sigmaprimus 5y ago
  yeah and most of those parents have been refinancing their homes to support their spoiled children. That is going to end real soon and many of those kids are going to witness their parents lose their homes and become impoverished due to their lazy yet extravagant lifestyles.
  - ricardobayes 5y ago
    It's not about spoiled children, I see janitors walking around with 800 euro phones here. It's just a psychological way for low earning people to 'keep up with the Kardashians'. AS they can't buy cars or houses they buy gadgets.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      It’s amusing to me to contemplate that I work in tech and buy 1-2 year old iPhones for $300-500. I’m glad so many people have to have the very latest and so recycle great tech for 50+% discounts.
      - dzhiurgis 5y ago
        So how is the $50 per month savings is going to help you buy that $1M home?
    - pydry 5y ago
      I saw this in Myanmar. There were people living in mud huts but they had smartphones. I also had the same thought - it's the one luxury they can actually afford if they save up. I dont really get how people can look at that and think that these people are better off than a middle class 1950s US family. It's insane.
dan-robertson 5y ago
The statement was that most Americans are significantly worse off now than [their equivalents in] the 1970s. Do you claim that most Americans fit your description of someone living on minimum wage or are you trying to argue against a point I wasn’t trying to make? I’m not saying there aren’t problems but even someone with a very low income who is forced (by American life) to run a car for a lot of their money is unlikely to be using a car from the 70s (50 years old) and more likely to use something from the 90s or 00s less safe and efficient than cars of today but still better than cars of the 70s.
sigmaprimus 5y ago
Many people have a misguided belief that home ownership was easy in the 70s, 80s or even the 90s. Yes the prices were lower and maybe the cost/average income ratio was lower but I can attest to the fact that it was no easy feat even back then. Plenty of people lost their homes, renters had far less rights and although when looking at things through averages seems to indicate a better off middle class, the wages of the top 10% middle class (Mostly Unionized) were propping up a huge amount of the middle class that were grinding it out living paycheck to paycheck with none of the social safety nets currently in place. I find it incredulous that so many people are blind to what is coming in the next few years, there is a huge sense of entitlement and victimhood based on some idea that the world was easier back then. We are coming out of what I consider almost 35 years of prosperity resultant from "Winning" the cold war but a reconning is right around the corner. I don't expect many to take my advise but if I was in debt, renting a home and unemployed, I would stop bitching about minimum wage and would be finding a job real fast, the days of help wanted signs in every window are about to end.
- CraigJPerry 5y ago
  >> maybe the cost/average income ratio was lower There’s no maybe about it. In the 70s, average house sale price was 4x the average salary. Today it’s 8x. How many lattes would you need to have skipped to have bought two homes at the time you bought your first? How many holidays would you have needed to skip to pay two mortgages while you were paying one? That is the scenario - well except todays generation would only have one house at the end of the day, not two.
  - sigmaprimus 5y ago
    My house is currently valued at 100K USD that is not an unreachable goal. It might not be right next to your favorite coffee shop but that just one of the sacrifices You make when You want to own a home. BTW in the 70s we didn't have lattes, it was just plain old coffee and what is this holiday's thing You are talking about? It sounds like something the privileged think they are entitled to.
- nly 5y ago
sokoloff 5y ago
Is it reasonable to expect that a minimum wage earner should be able to afford to buy a house and a newish car? Were minimum wage earners doing that in 1970?
- PickledHotdog 5y ago
  Yes they were
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    The minimum wage went up to $1.45/hr in Feb, 1970. 2000 hours of that would be $2900. I used the following assumptions: 7.5% fixed-30, median house $17K, down payment of 20%. That was unaffordable by a factor of almost 2x. The house that seemed affordable with no car payment was a little over $9K (down payment of $1800). Adding in a $50/mo car payment took the affordable house down to a little over $8K, less than half the price of the median home in 1970. Was there a minimum wage worker sometime in 1970 who bought a house and a newish car? I'm sure there was. Was it typical to do so? I don't think so. Refs: http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.html http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.html , https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29590190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29590190 , https://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/new-house-calculator.aspx https://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/new-house-cal... (I used a 10x multiplier, so I modeled in the calculator someone making $14.50/hr, a median house of $170K rather than $17K, etc, and then divided them by 10 to cite the figures above.)
    - deathanatos 5y ago
      If I apply the same calculation today, on a minimum wage of $7.25… Wage: $7.25/h per-month affordable: $362.50 median home price: $374,900 3.519% fixed, 30-yr 20% down required monthly payment -> $1,350 which is unaffordable by a factor of almost 4x. In fairness, the comment chain you're responding to is talking about the thing you're responding to in your comment, but I think the increase in unaffordability at the minimum wage still speaks to the problem: while it wasn't likely to allow home ownership in the past, but it's even less possible now, and that translates up into the higher wages where people then might have afforded a home, but cannot now. Plenty of maps have been drawn to show that minimum wage can't even afford to rent median 1-bed apartments.

passerby1 5y ago

Are metaverse gonna replace lack of owning a house (and travel) soon? /s

me_me_me 5y ago
Don't even jest, I heard something similar told at work without the /s part.
- erwincoumans 5y ago
  That sounds similar to The Matrix.
helpfulmandrill 5y ago
Maybe you could just live in a coffin and jack into a more spacious metaverse simulation of an apartment /s
- throw1234651234 5y ago
  lol, this will actually happen.
  - helpfulmandrill 5y ago
    An apartment that comes with total surveillance. Like Alexa on steroids. How do we get off this train?
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  You just described japan.

nickpp 5y ago

For example, it lets you live in a less expensive city and work remotely wherever you want. Also it allows you to learn and raise your earning potential. Finally modern transportation options less expensive than cars like e-bikes and e-scooters allow you to commute easier.

thinknboutstuff 5y ago
Genuinely curious, are you or were you lower class in America? Sure, some people can benefit from remote work. But remote work is also not typically minimum wage. And to access those higher wage jobs, you’ll certainly need access to capital to invest in education. Have you considered using an e-bike in the US? This could only be feasible in a minority of situations… It sounds like a techie meme of what life could be, but is certainly not.
- nickpp 5y ago
  I am not American. I come from zero money but lucked out with a stable family that highly valued education. They sacrificed a lot for it but they strongly believed that you can improve your lot in life through hard work and perseverance. I share those believes and am living proof they work.
selfhifive 5y ago
Thus funneling more wealth to the already wealthy. That's the point. The average is okay but the distribution of wealth is messed up.
confidantlake 5y ago
90% of the US you would get killed on your commute if you tried to use an e-bike or e-scooter.

ricardobayes 5y ago

I saaw that happening in Budapest. Every young person has a new iPhone and wearing new sneakers, but living with parents.

sigmaprimus 5y ago
yeah and most of those parents have been refinancing their homes to support their spoiled children. That is going to end real soon and many of those kids are going to witness their parents lose their homes and become impoverished due to their lazy yet extravagant lifestyles.
- ricardobayes 5y ago
  It's not about spoiled children, I see janitors walking around with 800 euro phones here. It's just a psychological way for low earning people to 'keep up with the Kardashians'. AS they can't buy cars or houses they buy gadgets.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    It’s amusing to me to contemplate that I work in tech and buy 1-2 year old iPhones for $300-500. I’m glad so many people have to have the very latest and so recycle great tech for 50+% discounts.
    - dzhiurgis 5y ago
      So how is the $50 per month savings is going to help you buy that $1M home?
  - pydry 5y ago
    I saw this in Myanmar. There were people living in mud huts but they had smartphones. I also had the same thought - it's the one luxury they can actually afford if they save up. I dont really get how people can look at that and think that these people are better off than a middle class 1950s US family. It's insane.

dan-robertson 5y ago

The statement was that most Americans are significantly worse off now than [their equivalents in] the 1970s. Do you claim that most Americans fit your description of someone living on minimum wage or are you trying to argue against a point I wasn’t trying to make? I’m not saying there aren’t problems but even someone with a very low income who is forced (by American life) to run a car for a lot of their money is unlikely to be using a car from the 70s (50 years old) and more likely to use something from the 90s or 00s less safe and efficient than cars of today but still better than cars of the 70s.

sigmaprimus 5y ago

Many people have a misguided belief that home ownership was easy in the 70s, 80s or even the 90s. Yes the prices were lower and maybe the cost/average income ratio was lower but I can attest to the fact that it was no easy feat even back then. Plenty of people lost their homes, renters had far less rights and although when looking at things through averages seems to indicate a better off middle class, the wages of the top 10% middle class (Mostly Unionized) were propping up a huge amount of the middle class that were grinding it out living paycheck to paycheck with none of the social safety nets currently in place. I find it incredulous that so many people are blind to what is coming in the next few years, there is a huge sense of entitlement and victimhood based on some idea that the world was easier back then. We are coming out of what I consider almost 35 years of prosperity resultant from "Winning" the cold war but a reconning is right around the corner. I don't expect many to take my advise but if I was in debt, renting a home and unemployed, I would stop bitching about minimum wage and would be finding a job real fast, the days of help wanted signs in every window are about to end.

CraigJPerry 5y ago
>> maybe the cost/average income ratio was lower There’s no maybe about it. In the 70s, average house sale price was 4x the average salary. Today it’s 8x. How many lattes would you need to have skipped to have bought two homes at the time you bought your first? How many holidays would you have needed to skip to pay two mortgages while you were paying one? That is the scenario - well except todays generation would only have one house at the end of the day, not two.
- sigmaprimus 5y ago
  My house is currently valued at 100K USD that is not an unreachable goal. It might not be right next to your favorite coffee shop but that just one of the sacrifices You make when You want to own a home. BTW in the 70s we didn't have lattes, it was just plain old coffee and what is this holiday's thing You are talking about? It sounds like something the privileged think they are entitled to.
nly 5y ago

sokoloff 5y ago

Is it reasonable to expect that a minimum wage earner should be able to afford to buy a house and a newish car? Were minimum wage earners doing that in 1970?

PickledHotdog 5y ago
Yes they were
- sokoloff 5y ago
  The minimum wage went up to $1.45/hr in Feb, 1970. 2000 hours of that would be $2900. I used the following assumptions: 7.5% fixed-30, median house $17K, down payment of 20%. That was unaffordable by a factor of almost 2x. The house that seemed affordable with no car payment was a little over $9K (down payment of $1800). Adding in a $50/mo car payment took the affordable house down to a little over $8K, less than half the price of the median home in 1970. Was there a minimum wage worker sometime in 1970 who bought a house and a newish car? I'm sure there was. Was it typical to do so? I don't think so. Refs: http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.html http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.html , https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29590190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29590190 , https://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/new-house-calculator.aspx https://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/new-house-cal... (I used a 10x multiplier, so I modeled in the calculator someone making $14.50/hr, a median house of $170K rather than $17K, etc, and then divided them by 10 to cite the figures above.)
  - deathanatos 5y ago
    If I apply the same calculation today, on a minimum wage of $7.25… Wage: $7.25/h per-month affordable: $362.50 median home price: $374,900 3.519% fixed, 30-yr 20% down required monthly payment -> $1,350 which is unaffordable by a factor of almost 4x. In fairness, the comment chain you're responding to is talking about the thing you're responding to in your comment, but I think the increase in unaffordability at the minimum wage still speaks to the problem: while it wasn't likely to allow home ownership in the past, but it's even less possible now, and that translates up into the higher wages where people then might have afforded a home, but cannot now. Plenty of maps have been drawn to show that minimum wage can't even afford to rent median 1-bed apartments.