6 ms·

I was involved in part with the Windows 8 control panel refresh. What a nightmare it was working with that team. There was just no care for actually improving

I was involved in part with the Windows 8 control panel refresh. What a nightmare it was working with that team. There was just no care for actually improving user experience, everything was shoehorned into the modern ui mainly as a push for ARM windows devices which were so slow they just never took off. MS wanted to force an enclosed ecosystem like apple iOS, but just didn’t have the hardware to make it happen. I remember one story asking why it was so difficult to manage switching to Bluetooth speakers for the surface which was still somewhat secret at MS at the time only to be told that they did follow up with my question and only 0.005% of users ever used Bluetooth speakers with windows and it wasn’t a priority. (Obviously the number is t right, but it was something utterly tiny)

atoav 5y ago
> only 0.005% of users ever used Bluetooth speakers successfully? How many tried? This can btw. be an issue with telemetry: if people don't manage to do something, maybe you will never know.
- mattlondon 5y ago
  This is where a "funnel" approach can be useful. E.g. you want to measure people on their way to feature X, so you measure the steps before feature X too and see how far down the funnel people get. When you start to see people going in loops or doing the same things over and over but not quite reaching the destination, then you know you have UX issues. Of course this is good only for "near misses" - you may have users who don't even know where to start - that is harder to identify.
- jcelerier 5y ago
  Anecdotally, I don't remember ever meeting anyone who even talked about entertaining the thought of using Bluetooth speakers on win32
- causi 5y ago
  I tried using bluetooth speakers with Windows. It was fucking atrocious because Windows makes zero effort to compensate for bluetooth lag. Watch a video file or a Youtube video on Android and it inserts a split second of delay into the stream so the video and audio sync up. Windows does nothing of the sort, and it feels like you're watching a dubbed foreign language film.
  - najqh 5y ago
    This does not match my experience using Airpods Pro on Windows. On the other hand it is seemingly impossible to use the microphone of these Airpods and listen to music at the same time. The quality is atrocious. Something that I assume is possible on a Mac. (Anybody knows of a solution? I read it's because of bluetooth profiles or whatever...)
    - causi 5y ago
      Airpod Pros have a fairly small latency. You may not have noticed it. https://stephencoyle.net/images/latency-chart.jpg https://stephencoyle.net/images/latency-chart.jpg
    - Dma54rhs 5y ago
      Regarding quality, what version of Bluetooth did the chip on your windows machine supported and what features? This can be the answer, it usually switches profile when using mic to compensate for latency that gives you shitty audio quad liturgy but it's much better with newer Bluetooth versions in my opinion.
      - causi 5y ago
        Frankly I wish I could do that with Android. If I use my decade-old shitty bluetooth headphones I get no perceptible lag and I can game with them.
    - izacus 5y ago
      No, on a Mac the headphones switch profiles with Mic as well, it's pretty obvious when they go from A2DP to HFS profile.
sorenjan 5y ago
I can understand Bluetooth speakers being rare, but at least now Bluetooth headphones must be increasing rapidly in popularity. I don't remember how common they were at that time, but it should have been clear that they would increase in use in the near future. If you want to connect to a pair of previously paired Bluetooth headphones in Windows 10 you can press Win+K to open the connect quick action.
MrPatan 5y ago
And why oh why does the Microsoft Xbox Elite 2 controller (which is not cheap!) can't keep a bluetooth connection open with a Windows computer to save its life, but connects flawlessly to the "Xbox wireless connector" usb dongle? Here's an idea: take that wireless controller thingy, the logitech thingy that talks to the keyboard and mouse, and the jabra one that moves audio between a headset and base, put them all inside the computer instead of in dongles, call it "greentooth" and charge people whatever you want for it.
johnwalkr 5y ago
In windows 11, clicking the wifi icon shows a list of available networks to connect to. I can’t seem to remember that clicking on the Bluetooth icon doesn’t give a list of devices but simply switches Bluetooth off.

atoav 5y ago

> only 0.005% of users ever used Bluetooth speakers successfully? How many tried? This can btw. be an issue with telemetry: if people don't manage to do something, maybe you will never know.

mattlondon 5y ago
This is where a "funnel" approach can be useful. E.g. you want to measure people on their way to feature X, so you measure the steps before feature X too and see how far down the funnel people get. When you start to see people going in loops or doing the same things over and over but not quite reaching the destination, then you know you have UX issues. Of course this is good only for "near misses" - you may have users who don't even know where to start - that is harder to identify.
jcelerier 5y ago
Anecdotally, I don't remember ever meeting anyone who even talked about entertaining the thought of using Bluetooth speakers on win32
causi 5y ago
I tried using bluetooth speakers with Windows. It was fucking atrocious because Windows makes zero effort to compensate for bluetooth lag. Watch a video file or a Youtube video on Android and it inserts a split second of delay into the stream so the video and audio sync up. Windows does nothing of the sort, and it feels like you're watching a dubbed foreign language film.
- najqh 5y ago
  This does not match my experience using Airpods Pro on Windows. On the other hand it is seemingly impossible to use the microphone of these Airpods and listen to music at the same time. The quality is atrocious. Something that I assume is possible on a Mac. (Anybody knows of a solution? I read it's because of bluetooth profiles or whatever...)
  - causi 5y ago
    Airpod Pros have a fairly small latency. You may not have noticed it. https://stephencoyle.net/images/latency-chart.jpg https://stephencoyle.net/images/latency-chart.jpg
  - Dma54rhs 5y ago
    Regarding quality, what version of Bluetooth did the chip on your windows machine supported and what features? This can be the answer, it usually switches profile when using mic to compensate for latency that gives you shitty audio quad liturgy but it's much better with newer Bluetooth versions in my opinion.
    - causi 5y ago
      Frankly I wish I could do that with Android. If I use my decade-old shitty bluetooth headphones I get no perceptible lag and I can game with them.
  - izacus 5y ago
    No, on a Mac the headphones switch profiles with Mic as well, it's pretty obvious when they go from A2DP to HFS profile.

sorenjan 5y ago

I can understand Bluetooth speakers being rare, but at least now Bluetooth headphones must be increasing rapidly in popularity. I don't remember how common they were at that time, but it should have been clear that they would increase in use in the near future. If you want to connect to a pair of previously paired Bluetooth headphones in Windows 10 you can press Win+K to open the connect quick action.

MrPatan 5y ago

And why oh why does the Microsoft Xbox Elite 2 controller (which is not cheap!) can't keep a bluetooth connection open with a Windows computer to save its life, but connects flawlessly to the "Xbox wireless connector" usb dongle? Here's an idea: take that wireless controller thingy, the logitech thingy that talks to the keyboard and mouse, and the jabra one that moves audio between a headset and base, put them all inside the computer instead of in dongles, call it "greentooth" and charge people whatever you want for it.

johnwalkr 5y ago

In windows 11, clicking the wifi icon shows a list of available networks to connect to. I can’t seem to remember that clicking on the Bluetooth icon doesn’t give a list of devices but simply switches Bluetooth off.