3 ms·

One man's "venture capital" is another man's "actual websites and functionality." I would appreciate less subjective criticism of web3.

smoldesu 5y ago
Okay, can you give me an example of some staple Web3 sites that exist today?
- selestify 5y ago
  - Uniswap and Sushiswap allows you to trade different cryptos for one another. If you want to trade gold for some reason in a decentralized manner, you could do that by making trades between gold-pegged crypto and stablecoins - Aave allows you to lend and borrow different crypto assets. If you wish to short a crypto, or if you wish to borrow against your portfolio so that you're spending fiat rather than your portfolio (a feature offered by traditional assets as well), this lets you do both of those. - Tornado cash allows you to anonymize your Ethereum, because unfortunately Ethereum just doesn't have strong built-in privacy guarantees like Monero - All the gambling websites. If gambling is illegal in your jurisdiction, but you'd like to gamble anyway, it's hard to stop you from doing so. Depending on your political sensibilities, this could be a good or bad thing. Personally, I say let adults do what they want, including making dumb decisions for themselves. (Of course, if you want to hide your tracks well, you'd probably want to use the aforementioned Tornado Cash.)
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Where's your "Google"? Where's your "YouTube"? Where's your killer app? Everything you've listed is just different ways to throw away cryptocurrency. The average Joe is going to look at that list, chuckle, and go back to browsing Twitter on their iPhone. There's no main attraction here.
    - selestify 5y ago
      > Where's your "YouTube"? Where's your killer app? Where's the "Youtube" of the dark web? The famed red rooms don't even exist. What's the "killer app" of the dark web? Doesn't even exist, unless maybe you count the drug markets. I'd hazard a guess that they're by far the most popular. > Everything you've listed is just different ways to throw away cryptocurrency. I literally gave as an example how you could use fiat-backed crypto to buy gold-backed crypto. These assets literally track their real-world equivalents. Or do you have an issue with modern banking and the stock market too, because it's "just different ways to throw away" fake fiat money? > The average Joe is going to look at that list, chuckle, and go back to browsing Twitter on their iPhone. Good. The average Joe has no business using Tor. Hell, the average Joe doesn't even care enough about privacy to stop using Facebook. The average Joe doesn't need a lot of things. Who cares what the average Joe wants or doesn't want, unless you're trying specifically to market a product to the average Joe? Crypto exists for those who actually find a use for it. You seem either unable or unwilling to acknowledge this fact. Which is it?
      - smoldesu 5y ago
        If you've reduced your argument to "people shouldn't use it if they don't know what it is", have you considered that you might not be talking about the future of software? Nobody sold iPhones because it "exists for those who actually find a use for it".
        selestify 5y ago
        I never claimed it's the be-all future of software. It's got its uses and its uses are here to stay, that I'm sure of.
        smoldesu 5y ago
        So... is Web3 not a successor to Web2 then?
        5y ago
  - vintermann 5y ago
    So you can - Trade blockchain tokens for other blockchain tokens. Or trade blockchain tokens for tokens that claim (with dubious, temporary and totally non-cryptographic evidence) to be backed by something else. - Lend and borrow blockchain tokens. - Try to launder your blockchain tokens. They have to be really dirty for it to be worth it, since obscuring how you got hold of something valuable is already a crime in itself. - Give your blockchain tokens to blockchain casino owners.
    - selestify 5y ago
      > Trade blockchain tokens for other blockchain tokens. Or trade blockchain tokens for tokens that claim (with dubious, temporary and totally non-cryptographic evidence) to be backed by something else. The Perth Mint is "dubious" and "temporary" to you? If you dislike examples of assets backed by centralized entities, then look at decentralized algorithmic stablecoins. > - Lend and borrow blockchain tokens. Yes, including tokens that track "real world" assets. Lending and borrowing is afater all an integral part of the modern economy. This bulletpoint stands by itself. > - Try to launder your blockchain tokens. They have to be really dirty for it to be worth it, since obscuring how you got hold of something valuable is already a crime in itself. Just because you don't see any value in money laundering doesn't mean others don't. It's a billion dollar industry. > - Give your blockchain tokens to blockchain casino owners. If you want to, yes, you should absolutely have the freedom to do that. Alas, some jurisdictions in real life prevent their people from doing just that.
      - vintermann 5y ago
        Yes, it's temporary, in the sense that even tokens backed today might not necessarily be backed tomorrow. And yes, it is actually a surprisingly dubious organization (that corporations fully owned by a state and performing some minor official service for it, can still be extremely dodgy, should not come as a surprise). They seem to be profiting off the assumption that from the name, they would be as tightly controlled as a central bank. But it's very clear from dodgy stuff they've already been involved in, that they're absolutely not. But of course, I wasn't first and foremost talking about them, I was talking about the 800 dollar gorilla, Tether. They're now where Mt Gox was ca. mid-2013, with "everyone" knowing they're extremely dodgy and likely to collapse, but hoping to make money off those who haven't realized it yet. As to "tracking" real world assets, that mechanism of tracking is a weak point, rendering all the other "guarantees" moot. > Just because you don't see any value in money laundering doesn't mean others don't. It's a billion dollar industry. So is other fraud. Doesn't mean it isn't money out the window. For that matter, you don't know how much of the economic activity is real. Saying "this laundromat must be really good, see how much money is going through it" is a lot like saying "this service for purchasing fake reviews must be great, look how many 6 star reviews it has".

smoldesu 5y ago

Okay, can you give me an example of some staple Web3 sites that exist today?

selestify 5y ago
- Uniswap and Sushiswap allows you to trade different cryptos for one another. If you want to trade gold for some reason in a decentralized manner, you could do that by making trades between gold-pegged crypto and stablecoins - Aave allows you to lend and borrow different crypto assets. If you wish to short a crypto, or if you wish to borrow against your portfolio so that you're spending fiat rather than your portfolio (a feature offered by traditional assets as well), this lets you do both of those. - Tornado cash allows you to anonymize your Ethereum, because unfortunately Ethereum just doesn't have strong built-in privacy guarantees like Monero - All the gambling websites. If gambling is illegal in your jurisdiction, but you'd like to gamble anyway, it's hard to stop you from doing so. Depending on your political sensibilities, this could be a good or bad thing. Personally, I say let adults do what they want, including making dumb decisions for themselves. (Of course, if you want to hide your tracks well, you'd probably want to use the aforementioned Tornado Cash.)
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Where's your "Google"? Where's your "YouTube"? Where's your killer app? Everything you've listed is just different ways to throw away cryptocurrency. The average Joe is going to look at that list, chuckle, and go back to browsing Twitter on their iPhone. There's no main attraction here.
  - selestify 5y ago
    > Where's your "YouTube"? Where's your killer app? Where's the "Youtube" of the dark web? The famed red rooms don't even exist. What's the "killer app" of the dark web? Doesn't even exist, unless maybe you count the drug markets. I'd hazard a guess that they're by far the most popular. > Everything you've listed is just different ways to throw away cryptocurrency. I literally gave as an example how you could use fiat-backed crypto to buy gold-backed crypto. These assets literally track their real-world equivalents. Or do you have an issue with modern banking and the stock market too, because it's "just different ways to throw away" fake fiat money? > The average Joe is going to look at that list, chuckle, and go back to browsing Twitter on their iPhone. Good. The average Joe has no business using Tor. Hell, the average Joe doesn't even care enough about privacy to stop using Facebook. The average Joe doesn't need a lot of things. Who cares what the average Joe wants or doesn't want, unless you're trying specifically to market a product to the average Joe? Crypto exists for those who actually find a use for it. You seem either unable or unwilling to acknowledge this fact. Which is it?
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      If you've reduced your argument to "people shouldn't use it if they don't know what it is", have you considered that you might not be talking about the future of software? Nobody sold iPhones because it "exists for those who actually find a use for it".
      - selestify 5y ago
        I never claimed it's the be-all future of software. It's got its uses and its uses are here to stay, that I'm sure of.
        smoldesu 5y ago
        So... is Web3 not a successor to Web2 then?
        5y ago
- vintermann 5y ago
  So you can - Trade blockchain tokens for other blockchain tokens. Or trade blockchain tokens for tokens that claim (with dubious, temporary and totally non-cryptographic evidence) to be backed by something else. - Lend and borrow blockchain tokens. - Try to launder your blockchain tokens. They have to be really dirty for it to be worth it, since obscuring how you got hold of something valuable is already a crime in itself. - Give your blockchain tokens to blockchain casino owners.
  - selestify 5y ago
    > Trade blockchain tokens for other blockchain tokens. Or trade blockchain tokens for tokens that claim (with dubious, temporary and totally non-cryptographic evidence) to be backed by something else. The Perth Mint is "dubious" and "temporary" to you? If you dislike examples of assets backed by centralized entities, then look at decentralized algorithmic stablecoins. > - Lend and borrow blockchain tokens. Yes, including tokens that track "real world" assets. Lending and borrowing is afater all an integral part of the modern economy. This bulletpoint stands by itself. > - Try to launder your blockchain tokens. They have to be really dirty for it to be worth it, since obscuring how you got hold of something valuable is already a crime in itself. Just because you don't see any value in money laundering doesn't mean others don't. It's a billion dollar industry. > - Give your blockchain tokens to blockchain casino owners. If you want to, yes, you should absolutely have the freedom to do that. Alas, some jurisdictions in real life prevent their people from doing just that.
    - vintermann 5y ago
      Yes, it's temporary, in the sense that even tokens backed today might not necessarily be backed tomorrow. And yes, it is actually a surprisingly dubious organization (that corporations fully owned by a state and performing some minor official service for it, can still be extremely dodgy, should not come as a surprise). They seem to be profiting off the assumption that from the name, they would be as tightly controlled as a central bank. But it's very clear from dodgy stuff they've already been involved in, that they're absolutely not. But of course, I wasn't first and foremost talking about them, I was talking about the 800 dollar gorilla, Tether. They're now where Mt Gox was ca. mid-2013, with "everyone" knowing they're extremely dodgy and likely to collapse, but hoping to make money off those who haven't realized it yet. As to "tracking" real world assets, that mechanism of tracking is a weak point, rendering all the other "guarantees" moot. > Just because you don't see any value in money laundering doesn't mean others don't. It's a billion dollar industry. So is other fraud. Doesn't mean it isn't money out the window. For that matter, you don't know how much of the economic activity is real. Saying "this laundromat must be really good, see how much money is going through it" is a lot like saying "this service for purchasing fake reviews must be great, look how many 6 star reviews it has".