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Good for you. Not everyone needs to use Tor -- slow and inefficient, can't even do a proper 1080p livestream. Good for them. But some people are willing to pay

Good for you. Not everyone needs to use Tor -- slow and inefficient, can't even do a proper 1080p livestream. Good for them. But some people are willing to pay 10^9 the cost for certain guarantees. Good for them too, that such options now exist. Why the irrational hate?

brandonmenc 5y ago
This repeated comparison with Tor is apt - barely anyone (relatively) uses it, even though it has useful features. This is imo the best case scenario with web3. Which would mean that most of the current "value" is a bubble.
- seoaeu 5y ago
  The thing with tor is that it is only 1-2 orders of magnitude worse than the “normal” approach in terms of performance and so forth. Enough to be annoying, but still totally workable for a lot of applications
SilasX 5y ago
You’re making good points, but from this comment[1] and stuff like >Why the irrational hate? you’re coming off as too mean and I think you’d do well to avoid that tone. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29587901 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29587901
- selestify 5y ago
  Fair enough, will do. Thanks!
seoaeu 5y ago
10^9 time worse isn’t “can’t run 1080p livestream”. It is closer to “takes 30 years to load a webpage”.
- selestify 5y ago
  I meant that with respect to blockchain specifically. So the relative costs are higher, but that's only a difference in degree, not in type. I mean > This is great, but I don't need it at 10^9 times the cost. Like I said, good for you. You don't need it at 10^9 the cost. Some others do. Why hate that a solution exists for those who do?
  - seoaeu 5y ago
    > Why hate that a solution exists for those who do? Because from where I am it looks more like it exists for charlatans and scammers to draw more people in and exploit them. Also, why do cryptocurrency fanatics so frequently accuse anyone critical of them as being hateful?
    - selestify 5y ago
      > Because from where I am it looks more like it exists for charlatans and scammers to draw more people in and exploit them. Yes, "charlatans and scammers" are definitely part of the demographic that would benefit from crypto. But you're really going to ignore every other use case I've mentioned? From where some people stand, it looks more like Tor exists for pedophiles to draw other pedophiles in. They're not wrong, but they're also not acknowledging the full picture of what Tor and privacy in general enables. > Also, why do cryptocurrency fanatics so frequently accuse anyone critical of them as being hateful? Because the critics, as you can see over and over again in this very thread, are being completely dismissive to the actual use cases and benefits that crypto brings. Never acknowledging the minority of people for whom it actually brings real value to (granted, they've become a minority now that there's a lot of speculative dumb money in the market), never acknowledging the points that are being made, and also calling crypto advocates MLM schemers who just want to draw more people in to make money off of them. It's one thing if the critics take a look at it and say "Oh that's not really for me" or "Oh I don't know if censorship resistance is an attractive enough incentive for people to keep running Ethereum nodes long-term." Then we could really have a conversation. But they don't say it like that. They say everything with disdain and a sneer. So I respond in kind. What would you call that other than "hate"? If you kept criticizing something your friend likes despite them telling you all the reasons they like it, and you only ever saying how much it sucks and how nobody should like it, doesn't it make sense for them to ask you "Dude, why do you hate it so much? What do you have against it?"

brandonmenc 5y ago

This repeated comparison with Tor is apt - barely anyone (relatively) uses it, even though it has useful features. This is imo the best case scenario with web3. Which would mean that most of the current "value" is a bubble.

seoaeu 5y ago
The thing with tor is that it is only 1-2 orders of magnitude worse than the “normal” approach in terms of performance and so forth. Enough to be annoying, but still totally workable for a lot of applications

SilasX 5y ago

You’re making good points, but from this comment[1] and stuff like >Why the irrational hate? you’re coming off as too mean and I think you’d do well to avoid that tone. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29587901 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29587901

selestify 5y ago
Fair enough, will do. Thanks!

seoaeu 5y ago

10^9 time worse isn’t “can’t run 1080p livestream”. It is closer to “takes 30 years to load a webpage”.

selestify 5y ago
I meant that with respect to blockchain specifically. So the relative costs are higher, but that's only a difference in degree, not in type. I mean > This is great, but I don't need it at 10^9 times the cost. Like I said, good for you. You don't need it at 10^9 the cost. Some others do. Why hate that a solution exists for those who do?
- seoaeu 5y ago
  > Why hate that a solution exists for those who do? Because from where I am it looks more like it exists for charlatans and scammers to draw more people in and exploit them. Also, why do cryptocurrency fanatics so frequently accuse anyone critical of them as being hateful?
  - selestify 5y ago
    > Because from where I am it looks more like it exists for charlatans and scammers to draw more people in and exploit them. Yes, "charlatans and scammers" are definitely part of the demographic that would benefit from crypto. But you're really going to ignore every other use case I've mentioned? From where some people stand, it looks more like Tor exists for pedophiles to draw other pedophiles in. They're not wrong, but they're also not acknowledging the full picture of what Tor and privacy in general enables. > Also, why do cryptocurrency fanatics so frequently accuse anyone critical of them as being hateful? Because the critics, as you can see over and over again in this very thread, are being completely dismissive to the actual use cases and benefits that crypto brings. Never acknowledging the minority of people for whom it actually brings real value to (granted, they've become a minority now that there's a lot of speculative dumb money in the market), never acknowledging the points that are being made, and also calling crypto advocates MLM schemers who just want to draw more people in to make money off of them. It's one thing if the critics take a look at it and say "Oh that's not really for me" or "Oh I don't know if censorship resistance is an attractive enough incentive for people to keep running Ethereum nodes long-term." Then we could really have a conversation. But they don't say it like that. They say everything with disdain and a sneer. So I respond in kind. What would you call that other than "hate"? If you kept criticizing something your friend likes despite them telling you all the reasons they like it, and you only ever saying how much it sucks and how nobody should like it, doesn't it make sense for them to ask you "Dude, why do you hate it so much? What do you have against it?"