4 ms·

The problem people have with unions is that many of them elevate the lower performers by pushing down the higher performers. The higher performers have leverag

The problem people have with unions is that many of them elevate the lower performers by pushing down the higher performers. The higher performers have leverage already without a union. Of course this only works when there are more positions open that benefit from high performers than there is supply of high performing workers. Many tech workers believe this will be the case for some time to come. What would work better is if a union could allow for varying wages based on skill set. The problem here is demonstrating that skill, as often times it is difficult to objectively measure.

heavyset_go 5y ago
Many unions do exactly that. Every movie star in the US is represented by SAG-AFTRA, which is the same union that represents B-list infomercial actors. The union helps the stars negotiate multi-million dollar contracts, and the same union ensures actors you've never heard of are compensated and treated fairly. Same thing with professional athletes and their unions. White collar unions usually negotiate a floor that individuals can up-negotiate from. Not only can you negotiate for better compensation, unions will happily represent you and help you get what you're asking for.
- syshum 5y ago
  "many". No. Very few (in the USA) in fact act in that way. And a union for white collar workers would most certainly not. A union for white collar workers would be closer to UAW or AFLCIO and would most certainly have fixed compensation packages
  - js8 5y ago
    You understand unions are democratic, right? You can vote out the leaders if you disagree how they manage it. Now of course, if you are in the minority, and still feel slighted (and under-appreciated), there is always an option to start your own business with like-minded people.
    - syshum 5y ago
      I do understand that. And it is one of the reason I do not support them. I am an individual, I support individualism not Majoritarianism Direct democracy normally end badly because simple Majoritarianism is bad This is way in most democratic nations the will of the majority is balanced by other means or controls.
      - js8 5y ago
        OK.. You might as well be a solipsist. Why do we even have the discussion, then? If you don't want to participate in society, just don't. It's not clear to me why I would support you being an individualist (and adopt any of your political positions), when (according to your philosophy) I get nothing back in turn.
        paulcole 5y ago
        You wouldn’t have to stand in line behind him at the hospital or wait for the fire department to put out the fire at his house first. Because as an individualist, this person can tend to such matters themselves. That seems like a benefit to you.
        syshum 5y ago
        lol, nothing could be further from the truth, I have to say though this is the first time I have been called an egotist for advocating for a voluntary, individualist society. That is a new one, I thought I had seen all the ways people that want collective control over society could manipulate my words so A+ for being able to surprise me at my old age. >> If you don't want to participate in society, just don't. Participation in society does not require an over aching organization either governments or collective body's to manage my participation for me. I participate just fine negotiating my own individual contracts, my own business deals, etc. I do not need a third party to inject them selves in the transaction. Looks up Voluntarism, and/or Georgism and you will get a since of my worldview, it is far from solipsist >> when (according to your philosophy) I get nothing back in turn. Then you have a very narrow world view. The best interactions are voluntary, I attend social events because I enjoy the conversation, I buy a new computer because a need to get X done, I work for my employer because I need income to do the other things, my employer pays me because they need my skills, knowledge, and labor to advance their mission. These are all voluntary exchange where we each get something from the other.

heavyset_go 5y ago

Many unions do exactly that. Every movie star in the US is represented by SAG-AFTRA, which is the same union that represents B-list infomercial actors. The union helps the stars negotiate multi-million dollar contracts, and the same union ensures actors you've never heard of are compensated and treated fairly. Same thing with professional athletes and their unions. White collar unions usually negotiate a floor that individuals can up-negotiate from. Not only can you negotiate for better compensation, unions will happily represent you and help you get what you're asking for.

syshum 5y ago
"many". No. Very few (in the USA) in fact act in that way. And a union for white collar workers would most certainly not. A union for white collar workers would be closer to UAW or AFLCIO and would most certainly have fixed compensation packages
- js8 5y ago
  You understand unions are democratic, right? You can vote out the leaders if you disagree how they manage it. Now of course, if you are in the minority, and still feel slighted (and under-appreciated), there is always an option to start your own business with like-minded people.
  - syshum 5y ago
    I do understand that. And it is one of the reason I do not support them. I am an individual, I support individualism not Majoritarianism Direct democracy normally end badly because simple Majoritarianism is bad This is way in most democratic nations the will of the majority is balanced by other means or controls.
    - js8 5y ago
      OK.. You might as well be a solipsist. Why do we even have the discussion, then? If you don't want to participate in society, just don't. It's not clear to me why I would support you being an individualist (and adopt any of your political positions), when (according to your philosophy) I get nothing back in turn.
      - paulcole 5y ago
        You wouldn’t have to stand in line behind him at the hospital or wait for the fire department to put out the fire at his house first. Because as an individualist, this person can tend to such matters themselves. That seems like a benefit to you.
      - syshum 5y ago
        lol, nothing could be further from the truth, I have to say though this is the first time I have been called an egotist for advocating for a voluntary, individualist society. That is a new one, I thought I had seen all the ways people that want collective control over society could manipulate my words so A+ for being able to surprise me at my old age. >> If you don't want to participate in society, just don't. Participation in society does not require an over aching organization either governments or collective body's to manage my participation for me. I participate just fine negotiating my own individual contracts, my own business deals, etc. I do not need a third party to inject them selves in the transaction. Looks up Voluntarism, and/or Georgism and you will get a since of my worldview, it is far from solipsist >> when (according to your philosophy) I get nothing back in turn. Then you have a very narrow world view. The best interactions are voluntary, I attend social events because I enjoy the conversation, I buy a new computer because a need to get X done, I work for my employer because I need income to do the other things, my employer pays me because they need my skills, knowledge, and labor to advance their mission. These are all voluntary exchange where we each get something from the other.