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"84 American prisoners were summarily killed by German Waffen SS in the largest mass execution of the war." I think they meant largest of American soldiers.

chrisdhoover 5y ago
It is an odd claim, the largest. I just did a cursory search and found several notable atrocities with larger numbers. Most occurred from over several days to over several months. I guess an argument could be that specifies in a single day or in a single hour but that kind of specificity trivializes the scale of atrocities committed against Poles, Serbs, and Jews. Large scale massacres includes: Palmiry, Liepaja, Katyn, Bubanj, and Borki This video is widely viewed and worth the time https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DwKPFT-RioU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DwKPFT-RioU
- ncmncm 5y ago
  The Katyn Massacre comes to mind: tens of thousands of Polish officers executed wholesale by the [Edit: not Germans but] Soviets and buried in mass graves they were made to dig, first, in the forest. The 84 Americans, and similar number of Germans, in France, was something unusual on the Western front, but would have been beneath notice in the East.
  - pintxo 5y ago
    Not to under-report German atrocities during the war, but Katyn was a Soviet atrocity [1]. As a side note, at the 70th anniversary in 2010, large parts of the polish political establishment died on their way to the ceremony at the site of the massacre [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolensk_air_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolensk_air_disaster
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      Oops. Everybody mixes that up. Even at the time, the Soviets managed to blame it on the Germans. But there is plenty of blame to go around. The Soviets also had a policy of executing everybody in prison before retreating, piling the bodies in the cellars for the Germans to drag out and bury, and blaming the Germans. It was easy to believe it of them. Objecting to that policy would have been fatal.
      - myth_drannon 5y ago
        And then Germans would arrive and blame the Jews for that, then local Ukrainian populace would massacre the Jews(Lviv pogroms).
      - sofixa 5y ago
        > Everybody mixes that up. Even at the time, the Soviets managed to blame it on the Germans. Yeah, they even used German weapons ( supposedly due to better reliability).
    - sofixa 5y ago
      > As a side note, at the 70th anniversary in 2010, large parts of the polish political establishment died on their way to the ceremony at the site of the massacre [2]. Still one of the stupidest plane crashes in history, up there with José Sanjurjo (which changed the Spanish civil war a lot and paved the way for Franco) and 1981 Tu-104 Pushkin crash( which wiped out the Soviet Pacific fleet's command structure).
      - pintxo 5y ago
        Get-there-itis is a real problem.
  - alushta 5y ago
    [dead]
ncmncm 5y ago
What is most notable about that event is that the US slaughtered a similar number of German prisoners immediately after, as a reprisal. Patton succeeded in covering it up until after he died. On the Eastern front, it was usual to slaughter or just starve prisoners, on both sides. Furthermore, Stalin ordered that any Soviet soldier who had surrendered was guilty of desertion, and when "liberated" was sent to the GULag, or just executed if no transportation was convenient; German prisoners got the same treatment. Many, many thousands of Soviet (typically not Russian) prisoners fought tooth and nail to avoid being sent back East. Many committed suicide to avoid it. Tens of thousands of refugees who had fled West before the war were also "repatriated", and executed. Similarly, anyone in occupied Soviet territory who had been press-ganged into working or fighting for Germany was presumed guilty of treason. And, the Soviet NKVD had standing orders to shoot down whatever Soviet troops were at the back of any advance.
- euroderf 5y ago
  Wondering, are there examples of similar atrocities in earlier Russian military history, or are these uniquely Soviet ?
  - myth_drannon 5y ago
    Yes, plenty (Caucasus campaigns come to mind). But they didn't call it atrocities back then, just another empire doing what empires do.
- myth_drannon 5y ago
  Well it's a sweeping generalization about the former POWs all sent to Gulag. But yes, NKVD had a unit called SMERSH (Death to Spies) that would do that. They almost did it to my grand-grandfather who was injured at the beginnig of war, was captured and spent 4 years in a concentration camp(he was an officer hence treated better). Upon his return he was about to sent to Gulag but they found the doctor who treated him in the captivity and he testified that my g-grandfather was gravely injured, abandoned by his unit and didn't just surrender to Germans. He was never awarded a medal to commerate the victory (like all the soldiers had) but at least he was recognized as an army veteran (with all the rights that came with that)

chrisdhoover 5y ago

It is an odd claim, the largest. I just did a cursory search and found several notable atrocities with larger numbers. Most occurred from over several days to over several months. I guess an argument could be that specifies in a single day or in a single hour but that kind of specificity trivializes the scale of atrocities committed against Poles, Serbs, and Jews. Large scale massacres includes: Palmiry, Liepaja, Katyn, Bubanj, and Borki This video is widely viewed and worth the time https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DwKPFT-RioU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DwKPFT-RioU

ncmncm 5y ago
The Katyn Massacre comes to mind: tens of thousands of Polish officers executed wholesale by the [Edit: not Germans but] Soviets and buried in mass graves they were made to dig, first, in the forest. The 84 Americans, and similar number of Germans, in France, was something unusual on the Western front, but would have been beneath notice in the East.
- pintxo 5y ago
  Not to under-report German atrocities during the war, but Katyn was a Soviet atrocity [1]. As a side note, at the 70th anniversary in 2010, large parts of the polish political establishment died on their way to the ceremony at the site of the massacre [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolensk_air_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolensk_air_disaster
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    Oops. Everybody mixes that up. Even at the time, the Soviets managed to blame it on the Germans. But there is plenty of blame to go around. The Soviets also had a policy of executing everybody in prison before retreating, piling the bodies in the cellars for the Germans to drag out and bury, and blaming the Germans. It was easy to believe it of them. Objecting to that policy would have been fatal.
    - myth_drannon 5y ago
      And then Germans would arrive and blame the Jews for that, then local Ukrainian populace would massacre the Jews(Lviv pogroms).
    - sofixa 5y ago
      > Everybody mixes that up. Even at the time, the Soviets managed to blame it on the Germans. Yeah, they even used German weapons ( supposedly due to better reliability).
  - sofixa 5y ago
    > As a side note, at the 70th anniversary in 2010, large parts of the polish political establishment died on their way to the ceremony at the site of the massacre [2]. Still one of the stupidest plane crashes in history, up there with José Sanjurjo (which changed the Spanish civil war a lot and paved the way for Franco) and 1981 Tu-104 Pushkin crash( which wiped out the Soviet Pacific fleet's command structure).
    - pintxo 5y ago
      Get-there-itis is a real problem.
- alushta 5y ago
  [dead]

ncmncm 5y ago

What is most notable about that event is that the US slaughtered a similar number of German prisoners immediately after, as a reprisal. Patton succeeded in covering it up until after he died. On the Eastern front, it was usual to slaughter or just starve prisoners, on both sides. Furthermore, Stalin ordered that any Soviet soldier who had surrendered was guilty of desertion, and when "liberated" was sent to the GULag, or just executed if no transportation was convenient; German prisoners got the same treatment. Many, many thousands of Soviet (typically not Russian) prisoners fought tooth and nail to avoid being sent back East. Many committed suicide to avoid it. Tens of thousands of refugees who had fled West before the war were also "repatriated", and executed. Similarly, anyone in occupied Soviet territory who had been press-ganged into working or fighting for Germany was presumed guilty of treason. And, the Soviet NKVD had standing orders to shoot down whatever Soviet troops were at the back of any advance.

euroderf 5y ago
Wondering, are there examples of similar atrocities in earlier Russian military history, or are these uniquely Soviet ?
- myth_drannon 5y ago
  Yes, plenty (Caucasus campaigns come to mind). But they didn't call it atrocities back then, just another empire doing what empires do.
myth_drannon 5y ago
Well it's a sweeping generalization about the former POWs all sent to Gulag. But yes, NKVD had a unit called SMERSH (Death to Spies) that would do that. They almost did it to my grand-grandfather who was injured at the beginnig of war, was captured and spent 4 years in a concentration camp(he was an officer hence treated better). Upon his return he was about to sent to Gulag but they found the doctor who treated him in the captivity and he testified that my g-grandfather was gravely injured, abandoned by his unit and didn't just surrender to Germans. He was never awarded a medal to commerate the victory (like all the soldiers had) but at least he was recognized as an army veteran (with all the rights that came with that)