> I will assert that you simply can't program any non-trivial program in Java or C++ without an "Environment" to help you. How large is non-trivial? I've buil

> I will assert that you simply can't program any non-trivial program in Java or C++ without an "Environment" to help you. How large is non-trivial? I've built some pretty big systems using only javac, java, a text editor, and make.