4 ms·

This is just anecdotal but my grandfather is nearly 90 years old. He has been eating goat meat, chicken, fish and prawns at least 4 days a week his entire life.

by jp0d 5y ago

This is just anecdotal but my grandfather is nearly 90 years old. He has been eating goat meat, chicken, fish and prawns at least 4 days a week his entire life. Although he raised his own goats and fish as a farmer. And he has eaten "organic" food most of his life. He is quite healthy. Whereas many vegetarian members of my family and close family have lots of health issues. Granted many of them are living in the cities and are dependant on processed foods, refined oils and fresh produce laden with chemicals. I know that there are a lot more variables affecting the outcome not just eating animal protein. But I don't doubt this study, although that's confirmation bias for me!

paulryanrogers 5y ago
Survivorship bias may also be a factor
- jjcon 5y ago
  Does that really apply here? Seems to just be anecdotal as they suggested
  - tuatoru 5y ago
    We don't know. What do the grandchildren of the grandfather's siblings say about their grandparents?
Maursault 5y ago
How much does he eat? There is an inverse relationship between caloric intake and mortality; the less you eat, the longer you live. Also, keep in mind that animal protein is not necessarily meat, meat would be a subset of animal protein, which means this study does not remotely conclude that meat intake is inversely proportional to mortality. Though some will claim otherwise and I envy them, it is not easy to eat vegetarian, so your anecdotal insinuation that vegetarianism is less healthy could be due to the fact that readily available options, if they exist, are vanishingly slim. For one, there seems to be meat or meat byproduct in everything. No major restaurant chain caters to vegetarian diets, unless you count Subway with all the exposed deli meat and preps touching meat, it can kill appetites, and I wouldn't call Taco Bell's bean burrito catering to the vegetarian diet. Vegetarian restaurants are incredibly rare, and I don't understand why. Most restaurants will have a single dish that is vegetarian on a menu that is 4-5 oversized pages long. And if you're in the sticks, forget it everything has meat, and often it is causing trouble to ask the meat be left out. And when you do find a vegetarian restaurant, the entrees are often exotic and bizarre (even if delicious, they just don't need to be that complicated or expensive). I don't get why there isn't a restaurant that prepares and serves everything Americana except the gratuitously included meat in every single entree. If I had any startup money, I'd open a chain of vegetarian fast food restaurants that serves all vegetarian entrees, with plenty of calories and nailing all the nutrition metrics, but made only with familiar food resulting in familiar, non-intimidating dishes with prices compatible with those of any fast food place.
- pkaye 5y ago
  > If I had any startup money, I'd open a chain of vegetarian fast food restaurants that serves all vegetarian entrees... What kind of entrees are you thinking of? I notice more vegetarian and vegan restaurants coming up in the bay area atleast. But the prices seem a bit higher.
  - Maursault 5y ago
    > What kind of entrees are you thinking of? I'm not all that creative with food, grilled cheeses would be on the menu, as well as cucumber sandwiches, various fresh raw fruits (apples, pears, citruses, berries, melons, tropicals and exotics), all major forms of how a potato can be prepared, corn on the cob, actually any corn preparation, lot of breads and bakery items (ideally made fresh on site if practical), beans and rice dishes, and just rice and veggie dishes, and pasta dishes with various primavera sauces maybe served in a cup at the drive thru so could be eaten with one hand without utensils, probably would have to have a fryer, so any vegetable would be available fried (I know it's not good, but tastes ok, and can be vegetarian), salads salads salads, all the lettuces and cabbages and spinaches, vegetarian chili (did you know Chili's doesn't serve any vegetarian chili? I mean, come on), veggie tamales, fajitas, tacos, burritos, veggie Chinese dishes (apparently, not yet invented), veggie Japanese dishes, all the cheeses available on anything, maybe a few types of butter, also available on anything, and likely all the various ways to prepare eggs, definitely including fried egg sandwiches with tomato & mayo, but also sim egg preparations if preferred. Meatless breakfasts all day and all night. I can't stand tofu, but some people like it and it can be prepared to taste like anything, though I've had these great veggie burgers before that do not taste or look at all like burgers or meat, just a veggie formulation in a patty on a bun with tomato, lettuce, ketchup & mayo that tasted like what it was, and veggies taste really good, so I'd ban any and all meat flavoring and meat simulations. You can get meat taste anywhere else. Also, chick pea formulations, various ranges of humus (I made a humus once without tahini, and mixed in banana and used strawberry rather than pimento, and no one who tasted it could believe how amazing it was... gave away about 20 sandwiches that day). The thing that would be great about this restaurant is that I wouldn't have to make the food, pros would do it. Also, pretty sure there'd be a juicer somewhere... ever had real juice? It is a crime what passes for juice in a grocery store (I guess the orange juice is ok, little else). Also would have to serve all the gourmet coffees. And shakes, ice creams, frozen yogurts, sorbets and ices. And fresh nuts, all the nuts there are... would probably have a dedicated nut menu, but also available garnished on anything. I honestly know nothing of the business, but I expect it would have to have reliable and just in time suppliers, and over time inventory would stabilize, reducing waste.

by jp0d 5y ago

paulryanrogers 5y ago

Survivorship bias may also be a factor

jjcon 5y ago
Does that really apply here? Seems to just be anecdotal as they suggested
- tuatoru 5y ago
  We don't know. What do the grandchildren of the grandfather's siblings say about their grandparents?

Maursault 5y ago

How much does he eat? There is an inverse relationship between caloric intake and mortality; the less you eat, the longer you live. Also, keep in mind that animal protein is not necessarily meat, meat would be a subset of animal protein, which means this study does not remotely conclude that meat intake is inversely proportional to mortality. Though some will claim otherwise and I envy them, it is not easy to eat vegetarian, so your anecdotal insinuation that vegetarianism is less healthy could be due to the fact that readily available options, if they exist, are vanishingly slim. For one, there seems to be meat or meat byproduct in everything. No major restaurant chain caters to vegetarian diets, unless you count Subway with all the exposed deli meat and preps touching meat, it can kill appetites, and I wouldn't call Taco Bell's bean burrito catering to the vegetarian diet. Vegetarian restaurants are incredibly rare, and I don't understand why. Most restaurants will have a single dish that is vegetarian on a menu that is 4-5 oversized pages long. And if you're in the sticks, forget it everything has meat, and often it is causing trouble to ask the meat be left out. And when you do find a vegetarian restaurant, the entrees are often exotic and bizarre (even if delicious, they just don't need to be that complicated or expensive). I don't get why there isn't a restaurant that prepares and serves everything Americana except the gratuitously included meat in every single entree. If I had any startup money, I'd open a chain of vegetarian fast food restaurants that serves all vegetarian entrees, with plenty of calories and nailing all the nutrition metrics, but made only with familiar food resulting in familiar, non-intimidating dishes with prices compatible with those of any fast food place.

pkaye 5y ago
> If I had any startup money, I'd open a chain of vegetarian fast food restaurants that serves all vegetarian entrees... What kind of entrees are you thinking of? I notice more vegetarian and vegan restaurants coming up in the bay area atleast. But the prices seem a bit higher.
- Maursault 5y ago
  > What kind of entrees are you thinking of? I'm not all that creative with food, grilled cheeses would be on the menu, as well as cucumber sandwiches, various fresh raw fruits (apples, pears, citruses, berries, melons, tropicals and exotics), all major forms of how a potato can be prepared, corn on the cob, actually any corn preparation, lot of breads and bakery items (ideally made fresh on site if practical), beans and rice dishes, and just rice and veggie dishes, and pasta dishes with various primavera sauces maybe served in a cup at the drive thru so could be eaten with one hand without utensils, probably would have to have a fryer, so any vegetable would be available fried (I know it's not good, but tastes ok, and can be vegetarian), salads salads salads, all the lettuces and cabbages and spinaches, vegetarian chili (did you know Chili's doesn't serve any vegetarian chili? I mean, come on), veggie tamales, fajitas, tacos, burritos, veggie Chinese dishes (apparently, not yet invented), veggie Japanese dishes, all the cheeses available on anything, maybe a few types of butter, also available on anything, and likely all the various ways to prepare eggs, definitely including fried egg sandwiches with tomato & mayo, but also sim egg preparations if preferred. Meatless breakfasts all day and all night. I can't stand tofu, but some people like it and it can be prepared to taste like anything, though I've had these great veggie burgers before that do not taste or look at all like burgers or meat, just a veggie formulation in a patty on a bun with tomato, lettuce, ketchup & mayo that tasted like what it was, and veggies taste really good, so I'd ban any and all meat flavoring and meat simulations. You can get meat taste anywhere else. Also, chick pea formulations, various ranges of humus (I made a humus once without tahini, and mixed in banana and used strawberry rather than pimento, and no one who tasted it could believe how amazing it was... gave away about 20 sandwiches that day). The thing that would be great about this restaurant is that I wouldn't have to make the food, pros would do it. Also, pretty sure there'd be a juicer somewhere... ever had real juice? It is a crime what passes for juice in a grocery store (I guess the orange juice is ok, little else). Also would have to serve all the gourmet coffees. And shakes, ice creams, frozen yogurts, sorbets and ices. And fresh nuts, all the nuts there are... would probably have a dedicated nut menu, but also available garnished on anything. I honestly know nothing of the business, but I expect it would have to have reliable and just in time suppliers, and over time inventory would stabilize, reducing waste.