3 ms·

All ideas have more or less merit. Address them individually based on their grounding in facts and evidence rather than a priori bucketing an arbitrary subset

All ideas have more or less merit. Address them individually based on their grounding in facts and evidence rather than a priori bucketing an arbitrary subset of ideas with a label. It's no different than calling people "libtards". You mention "woo" with annoyance before anyone even said anything, indicating a strong bias.

zwkrt 5y ago
Look, it’s just a convenient term for working scientists to use to categorize a group of people who are not worth listening to at all (in the scientific realm). Quantum physics gets a lot of this because it’s spooky but all fields experience some amount of quackery. Think people who send P=NP proofs to universities, “alternate” historians, flat earthers, and the like. Imagine if there were coding boot camps that were entirely based on developing a good vibe with the computer, and didn’t involve learning about how to write code at all. People go in, “learn” something, but then they try to get a coding job and fall flat on their face because they don’t actually know anything. This is exactly the state of quantum physics re: the general public. I would guess as a scientist it would get demoralizing.
- viscanti 5y ago
  > Imagine if there were coding boot camps that were entirely based on developing a good vibe with the computer From my experience the industry is sorely lacking people who have developed a good vibe with the computer and we can probably trace the root cause of a lot of the major systemic issues we see to that. This boot camp sounds great.
  - krohling 5y ago
    OMG, +2 for this bootcamp. I think the above comment about shroomwater in a camelback applies here.
- ohyeshedid 5y ago
  > Imagine if there were coding boot camps that were entirely based on developing a good vibe with the computer... Not quite zen cracking, but that's getting closer to the old +ORC ideology.
varelse 5y ago
Nah. Ridicule them ruthlessly and bring back the shame to being an idiot. One idiot's quantum entanglement with a tardigrade is another idiot's claim that antifa created the tornadoes that devastated Kentucky. Can't they see how much they have in common with each other?
- colordrops 5y ago
  While we are making broad generalizations, the problem with people who shame "them" (whomever you think "they" are) is that everything is binary, it's either the prevailing theory, or it's insane idiocy. There's no room in between, so even if you are scientist who put in good work but diverge a bit from the mainstream you get labeled as "woo". Labels are horrible lazy tools is my point. Just address the assertion itself.
  - varelse 5y ago
    Except it's not at all like that. There are definitely media sorts and influencers whose followings are based on you believing that's the case so they can portray your faction as some sort of victim of nefarious elitists to keep you glued to their content, but it's never been a good idea (for example) to call a debate between an astronomer and a flat-earther in any way fair and balanced, yet it's those sorts of contrived ridiculous scenarios 24/7 now for top advertising $$$. You might need a new hobby if your find yourself in the midst of anything like that.
freen 5y ago
Will you address my claim that there is a teapot orbiting Jupiter? If not, why not?
- colordrops 5y ago
  My point was about a broad categorization, not individual bad ideas and theories. Building up a general intolerance to a vague and broad category called "woo" ends up in you calling a non-zero percentage of viable theories "woo" because it's outside of your world model, rather than being contradictory with evidence. It's the science equivalent of labeling someone a "conspiracy nut" in politics, where CIA manipulation of the media (a real thing with plenty of evidence) gets bucketed with reptilian overlords to unfairly denigrate the former valid theory. There is absolutely a ruling class with personal interest in the status quo within the scientific community that applies unthinking skepticism to perfectly valid ideas to protect their own agendas. I'd recommend listening to Dr. Avi Loeb's thoughts on this.

zwkrt 5y ago

Look, it’s just a convenient term for working scientists to use to categorize a group of people who are not worth listening to at all (in the scientific realm). Quantum physics gets a lot of this because it’s spooky but all fields experience some amount of quackery. Think people who send P=NP proofs to universities, “alternate” historians, flat earthers, and the like. Imagine if there were coding boot camps that were entirely based on developing a good vibe with the computer, and didn’t involve learning about how to write code at all. People go in, “learn” something, but then they try to get a coding job and fall flat on their face because they don’t actually know anything. This is exactly the state of quantum physics re: the general public. I would guess as a scientist it would get demoralizing.

viscanti 5y ago
> Imagine if there were coding boot camps that were entirely based on developing a good vibe with the computer From my experience the industry is sorely lacking people who have developed a good vibe with the computer and we can probably trace the root cause of a lot of the major systemic issues we see to that. This boot camp sounds great.
- krohling 5y ago
  OMG, +2 for this bootcamp. I think the above comment about shroomwater in a camelback applies here.
ohyeshedid 5y ago
> Imagine if there were coding boot camps that were entirely based on developing a good vibe with the computer... Not quite zen cracking, but that's getting closer to the old +ORC ideology.

varelse 5y ago

Nah. Ridicule them ruthlessly and bring back the shame to being an idiot. One idiot's quantum entanglement with a tardigrade is another idiot's claim that antifa created the tornadoes that devastated Kentucky. Can't they see how much they have in common with each other?

colordrops 5y ago
While we are making broad generalizations, the problem with people who shame "them" (whomever you think "they" are) is that everything is binary, it's either the prevailing theory, or it's insane idiocy. There's no room in between, so even if you are scientist who put in good work but diverge a bit from the mainstream you get labeled as "woo". Labels are horrible lazy tools is my point. Just address the assertion itself.
- varelse 5y ago
  Except it's not at all like that. There are definitely media sorts and influencers whose followings are based on you believing that's the case so they can portray your faction as some sort of victim of nefarious elitists to keep you glued to their content, but it's never been a good idea (for example) to call a debate between an astronomer and a flat-earther in any way fair and balanced, yet it's those sorts of contrived ridiculous scenarios 24/7 now for top advertising $$$. You might need a new hobby if your find yourself in the midst of anything like that.

freen 5y ago

Will you address my claim that there is a teapot orbiting Jupiter? If not, why not?

colordrops 5y ago
My point was about a broad categorization, not individual bad ideas and theories. Building up a general intolerance to a vague and broad category called "woo" ends up in you calling a non-zero percentage of viable theories "woo" because it's outside of your world model, rather than being contradictory with evidence. It's the science equivalent of labeling someone a "conspiracy nut" in politics, where CIA manipulation of the media (a real thing with plenty of evidence) gets bucketed with reptilian overlords to unfairly denigrate the former valid theory. There is absolutely a ruling class with personal interest in the status quo within the scientific community that applies unthinking skepticism to perfectly valid ideas to protect their own agendas. I'd recommend listening to Dr. Avi Loeb's thoughts on this.