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> But what if a large number of TCP connections is intentional? Sorry, that ship sailed long ago. Carriers have forever put restrictions on how their customers

> But what if a large number of TCP connections is intentional? Sorry, that ship sailed long ago. Carriers have forever put restrictions on how their customers can use their internet connections, such as "no hosting servers" or even not getting a routable IP address. Traffic shaping is part of the deal too. I think the only means we have to change the situation (in the face of a lack of competition) is to lobby for municipal internet. Or start a company.

superkuh 5y ago
It seems like all the real Internet Service Providers have died and all we're left with is web service providers with an incomplete internet implementation. This started with the wireless telcos where it was almost justified; they were late to the game and didn't have enough IPv4. But for established holders of large IP spaces this is exploitation if not outright fraud.
rubatuga 5y ago
We started a company called Hoppy Network that does away with ISP bullshit like CGNAT. As long as your ISP doesn’t block UDP packets, you’re set. I talk about the rationale here: https://www.naut.ca/blog/2020/12/30/launching-a-new-service/ https://www.naut.ca/blog/2020/12/30/launching-a-new-service/
- jevoten 5y ago
  > As long as your ISP doesn’t block UDP packets Can you explain? I thought TCP was implemented on top of UDP.
  - rubatuga 5y ago
    Nope, they’re both layer 4 protocols.
  - jmull 5y ago
    I believe technically both UDP and TCP are implemented on top of IP. But UDP is basically IP + a port number and a checksum, while TCP is IP + a port number and includes a checksum as well, and a bunch of other stuff. So while TCP isn’t exactly implemented on top of UDP, it’s pretty close. Something very much like TCP can be implemented on top of UDP, with whatever improvements or differences you might want to implement. (It’s just that both sides need to understand the custom TCP-like protocol.)
    - mindslight 5y ago
      FWIW the properties of UDP can be provided by a custom protocol implemented to look like it's TCP. Send acknowledgements for packets that were actually dropped, etc. I've seen a few pieces of niche Free software that do such a thing to get around super restrictive firewalls.
- neelc 5y ago
  OMG I wanted to create a similar service to Hoppy Network, but too bad you came first. Guess I'm stuck at a Big Tech job (for now). Anyways, wish all the best luck to you. There's also this service which I have for Tor bridges: https://www.aceinnovative.com/internet-access/static-ip-vpn/ https://www.aceinnovative.com/internet-access/static-ip-vpn/ Ace's "Static IP VPN" gives you more IPv4 space and is uncapped, but forces a long-EOL Cisco router and is very slow (meaning 2010 speeds). I had this on-and-off, and pushed my main Internet traffic over it from 2013-2015, but it is less flexible. I'd love to join Hoppy Network if it had a Seattle PoP, and if I could get an "uncapped" plan or at least a higher bandwidth version (even if it is super expensive). I don't demand it from you, though. And at the same time I totally understand why you have limits (for real), you don't want people to abuse your service and slow down everything. Maybe I will join, who knows.

superkuh 5y ago

It seems like all the real Internet Service Providers have died and all we're left with is web service providers with an incomplete internet implementation. This started with the wireless telcos where it was almost justified; they were late to the game and didn't have enough IPv4. But for established holders of large IP spaces this is exploitation if not outright fraud.

rubatuga 5y ago

We started a company called Hoppy Network that does away with ISP bullshit like CGNAT. As long as your ISP doesn’t block UDP packets, you’re set. I talk about the rationale here: https://www.naut.ca/blog/2020/12/30/launching-a-new-service/ https://www.naut.ca/blog/2020/12/30/launching-a-new-service/

jevoten 5y ago
> As long as your ISP doesn’t block UDP packets Can you explain? I thought TCP was implemented on top of UDP.
- rubatuga 5y ago
  Nope, they’re both layer 4 protocols.
- jmull 5y ago
  I believe technically both UDP and TCP are implemented on top of IP. But UDP is basically IP + a port number and a checksum, while TCP is IP + a port number and includes a checksum as well, and a bunch of other stuff. So while TCP isn’t exactly implemented on top of UDP, it’s pretty close. Something very much like TCP can be implemented on top of UDP, with whatever improvements or differences you might want to implement. (It’s just that both sides need to understand the custom TCP-like protocol.)
  - mindslight 5y ago
    FWIW the properties of UDP can be provided by a custom protocol implemented to look like it's TCP. Send acknowledgements for packets that were actually dropped, etc. I've seen a few pieces of niche Free software that do such a thing to get around super restrictive firewalls.
neelc 5y ago
OMG I wanted to create a similar service to Hoppy Network, but too bad you came first. Guess I'm stuck at a Big Tech job (for now). Anyways, wish all the best luck to you. There's also this service which I have for Tor bridges: https://www.aceinnovative.com/internet-access/static-ip-vpn/ https://www.aceinnovative.com/internet-access/static-ip-vpn/ Ace's "Static IP VPN" gives you more IPv4 space and is uncapped, but forces a long-EOL Cisco router and is very slow (meaning 2010 speeds). I had this on-and-off, and pushed my main Internet traffic over it from 2013-2015, but it is less flexible. I'd love to join Hoppy Network if it had a Seattle PoP, and if I could get an "uncapped" plan or at least a higher bandwidth version (even if it is super expensive). I don't demand it from you, though. And at the same time I totally understand why you have limits (for real), you don't want people to abuse your service and slow down everything. Maybe I will join, who knows.