5 ms·

Firefox should go all the way on this. Exploit bugs, modify binaries, whatever it takes. With user consent of course. If the user says they want Firefox to be t

Firefox should go all the way on this. Exploit bugs, modify binaries, whatever it takes. With user consent of course. If the user says they want Firefox to be their default browser, Firefox is justified in modifying the operating system to achieve that. Ultimately Microsoft is powerless to stop this except by using their antivirus to block installation of Firefox in the first place, and I'd like to see them try that because the blowback would be epic.

drdaeman 5y ago
This. Just like in the ol' good days, install an API hook (e.g. with Microsoft Detours[1]) that would patch relevant functions in-memory. Microsoft cannot block this because they'll be breaking lots of existing things (automation tools, gaming overlays, AV software even). And if MS would want to play it rough and start blocking hook DLLs with permission barriers, make this API patcher a kernel module. [1]: https://github.com/microsoft/detours https://github.com/microsoft/detours
- dblohm7 5y ago
  Firefox already does Detours-style API hooking -- I was its maintainer for several years.
  - nyanpasu64 5y ago
    What is the API hooking used for?
    - dblohm7 5y ago
      Mostly security and sandboxing stuff.
- bob1029 5y ago
  Right now, TrustedInstaller is an excellent workaround for many things.
- dataflow 5y ago
  > make this API patcher a kernel module You mean an unsigned one?
lazulicurio 5y ago
> Ultimately Microsoft is powerless to stop this except by using their antivirus to block installation of Firefox in the first place They've already started down that road with s mode, which is default for new installs and not a separate SKU (anymore) that you can avoid.
gentleman11 5y ago
Microsoft already warns you that Firefox might be malware and that edge is more secure sometimes. It’s only one step away from a full ban. Decades ago, they got the monopoly treatment for this stuff
- outside1234 5y ago
  But then Apple
- prox 5y ago
  Isn’t Microsoft gonna get slapped hard by the EU as anti competitive practice? They are already got a fine for that when IE6 was around.
  - Spivak 5y ago
    Maybe but if they can go to court and say that Firefox is malware because it’s intentionally breaking OS security features they’ll probably get away with it.
  - paxys 5y ago
    It’s a very different world today than when Microsoft went through antitrust proceedings for IE6. Regulatory authorities worldwide are getting more toothless by the day. Heck Apple doesn’t even let you use alternate browsers or install your own apps and they are celebrated for it. On what basis would there be action against Microsoft now?
    - nabakin 5y ago
      > Apple doesn’t even let you use alternate browsers Are you sure that's true? When I was using my MacBook a year ago, I used Chrome with no problems. Set as default and never had to look at Safari again. One of the points I've made against Microsoft doing this is not even control freak Apple goes this far.
      - mdoms 5y ago
gchamonlive 5y ago
I mean, people already install what are basically kernel level rootkits so they are able to play competitive multiplayer games. It is no stretch from what is accepted for Firefox to dig into the OS and stand its ground

drdaeman 5y ago

This. Just like in the ol' good days, install an API hook (e.g. with Microsoft Detours[1]) that would patch relevant functions in-memory. Microsoft cannot block this because they'll be breaking lots of existing things (automation tools, gaming overlays, AV software even). And if MS would want to play it rough and start blocking hook DLLs with permission barriers, make this API patcher a kernel module. [1]: https://github.com/microsoft/detours https://github.com/microsoft/detours

dblohm7 5y ago
Firefox already does Detours-style API hooking -- I was its maintainer for several years.
- nyanpasu64 5y ago
  What is the API hooking used for?
  - dblohm7 5y ago
    Mostly security and sandboxing stuff.
bob1029 5y ago
Right now, TrustedInstaller is an excellent workaround for many things.
dataflow 5y ago
> make this API patcher a kernel module You mean an unsigned one?

lazulicurio 5y ago

> Ultimately Microsoft is powerless to stop this except by using their antivirus to block installation of Firefox in the first place They've already started down that road with s mode, which is default for new installs and not a separate SKU (anymore) that you can avoid.

gentleman11 5y ago

Microsoft already warns you that Firefox might be malware and that edge is more secure sometimes. It’s only one step away from a full ban. Decades ago, they got the monopoly treatment for this stuff

outside1234 5y ago
But then Apple
prox 5y ago
Isn’t Microsoft gonna get slapped hard by the EU as anti competitive practice? They are already got a fine for that when IE6 was around.
- Spivak 5y ago
  Maybe but if they can go to court and say that Firefox is malware because it’s intentionally breaking OS security features they’ll probably get away with it.
- paxys 5y ago
  It’s a very different world today than when Microsoft went through antitrust proceedings for IE6. Regulatory authorities worldwide are getting more toothless by the day. Heck Apple doesn’t even let you use alternate browsers or install your own apps and they are celebrated for it. On what basis would there be action against Microsoft now?
  - nabakin 5y ago
    > Apple doesn’t even let you use alternate browsers Are you sure that's true? When I was using my MacBook a year ago, I used Chrome with no problems. Set as default and never had to look at Safari again. One of the points I've made against Microsoft doing this is not even control freak Apple goes this far.
    - mdoms 5y ago

gchamonlive 5y ago

I mean, people already install what are basically kernel level rootkits so they are able to play competitive multiplayer games. It is no stretch from what is accepted for Firefox to dig into the OS and stand its ground