4 ms·

Self driving should be pay as you go. Either on demand, daily, monthly or annually. Because the number of frequent updates is far too much and costly.

ethanwillis 5y ago
And then the clock strikes and your car crashes.
Imnimo 5y ago
Just have a taxi-style meter that clicks up every second your hands aren't on the wheel.
ChildOfChaos 5y ago
Pay as you go sounds stupid. So you buy a car and then have to pay to use it? It should be a feature that comes with the car, one off payment, you shouldn’t need to pay a subscription just because they didn’t have it fully ready before you bought it.
- tartrate 5y ago
  You can still use the car and drive it yourself. This would be paying monthly for the car to be able to drive itself. Just like you have to pay for "premium connectivity" in Teslas, i.e. internet access.
  - throwaway946513 5y ago
    Just like the 'subscription' remote start for physical key fobs from Toyota. Similar to the 'heated seat' subscription from BMW - or the annual subscription for AppleCar play to work with your headunit. Porsche charges for 'dynamic lighting plus' and 'active lane keep assist' as a subscription. Cadillac charges monthly for 'super cruise', Tesla Autopilot clone. Yes, you can still use the car, and drive it yourself - but the problem is how anti-consumer and rent seeking the behaviors are of these companies. The problem isn't limited to Tesla.
    - tartrate 5y ago
      I'm having trouble deciding which one is the most stupid out of those. I think I'm going to go with the heated seat subscription, wow.
atoav 5y ago
So should your toaster, your dishwasher, your smart lock, your light switch, your insulin pump. Usually it was anarchists who proclaimed that ownership equals theft — no we go to the other extreme, with corporate slowly trying to turn owners into renters. Instead of selling you something they try to become your landlord.
- nashashmi 5y ago
  Anything requiring updates like your computer or phone has a cost of maintenance not covered by the traditional models of retail.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Corporate isn't really trying to turn owners into renters. Instead they intend to be the owners :) Also anarchists never claimed ownership was theft, they claimed that owning something you're not using is theft.
  - atoav 5y ago
    > Also anarchists never claimed ownership was theft, they claimed that owning something you're not using is theft. I did a literal translation of the German "Eigentum ist Diebstahl" which literally translates to "ownership is theft". Of course anarchists meant that the theft is that you deprive others of the chance to make use of tools, objects etc. that could be put to use better collectively as you mentioned.
toss1 5y ago
Self-driving (assuming it was really full Level-5 self driving) is about the ONLY feature that I'd want on-demand, or consider a legitimate use for such an ongoing payment scheme. * The car is still perfectly useful without it * It genuinely needs ongoing updates * There are good use cases for occasional use - I'd rarely use it, unless I was coming home very late & tired, or really needed to work and not drive. Other features, like Toyota's recent announcement [0] that they are going to charge $8/month for your key fob to remote start your car, or BMW's attempt [1] to charge for heated seats are merely extractive ploys. This move of everything to unnecessary connected and subscription models is just an outrage. Sure, some services genuinely need connection, but most can be engineered without it if there is a will to do so. Otherwise, do't do it - it's a trap! [0] https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/12/22831105/toyota-subscription-remote-start-key-fob https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/12/22831105/toyota-subscrip... [1] https://www.thedrive.com/news/34547/bmw-is-planning-to-sell-heated-seats-and-more-as-a-subscription-no-really https://www.thedrive.com/news/34547/bmw-is-planning-to-sell-...

ethanwillis 5y ago

And then the clock strikes and your car crashes.

Imnimo 5y ago

Just have a taxi-style meter that clicks up every second your hands aren't on the wheel.

ChildOfChaos 5y ago

Pay as you go sounds stupid. So you buy a car and then have to pay to use it? It should be a feature that comes with the car, one off payment, you shouldn’t need to pay a subscription just because they didn’t have it fully ready before you bought it.

tartrate 5y ago
You can still use the car and drive it yourself. This would be paying monthly for the car to be able to drive itself. Just like you have to pay for "premium connectivity" in Teslas, i.e. internet access.
- throwaway946513 5y ago
  Just like the 'subscription' remote start for physical key fobs from Toyota. Similar to the 'heated seat' subscription from BMW - or the annual subscription for AppleCar play to work with your headunit. Porsche charges for 'dynamic lighting plus' and 'active lane keep assist' as a subscription. Cadillac charges monthly for 'super cruise', Tesla Autopilot clone. Yes, you can still use the car, and drive it yourself - but the problem is how anti-consumer and rent seeking the behaviors are of these companies. The problem isn't limited to Tesla.
  - tartrate 5y ago
    I'm having trouble deciding which one is the most stupid out of those. I think I'm going to go with the heated seat subscription, wow.

atoav 5y ago

So should your toaster, your dishwasher, your smart lock, your light switch, your insulin pump. Usually it was anarchists who proclaimed that ownership equals theft — no we go to the other extreme, with corporate slowly trying to turn owners into renters. Instead of selling you something they try to become your landlord.

nashashmi 5y ago
Anything requiring updates like your computer or phone has a cost of maintenance not covered by the traditional models of retail.
sudosysgen 5y ago
Corporate isn't really trying to turn owners into renters. Instead they intend to be the owners :) Also anarchists never claimed ownership was theft, they claimed that owning something you're not using is theft.
- atoav 5y ago
  > Also anarchists never claimed ownership was theft, they claimed that owning something you're not using is theft. I did a literal translation of the German "Eigentum ist Diebstahl" which literally translates to "ownership is theft". Of course anarchists meant that the theft is that you deprive others of the chance to make use of tools, objects etc. that could be put to use better collectively as you mentioned.

toss1 5y ago

Self-driving (assuming it was really full Level-5 self driving) is about the ONLY feature that I'd want on-demand, or consider a legitimate use for such an ongoing payment scheme. * The car is still perfectly useful without it * It genuinely needs ongoing updates * There are good use cases for occasional use - I'd rarely use it, unless I was coming home very late & tired, or really needed to work and not drive. Other features, like Toyota's recent announcement [0] that they are going to charge $8/month for your key fob to remote start your car, or BMW's attempt [1] to charge for heated seats are merely extractive ploys. This move of everything to unnecessary connected and subscription models is just an outrage. Sure, some services genuinely need connection, but most can be engineered without it if there is a will to do so. Otherwise, do't do it - it's a trap! [0] https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/12/22831105/toyota-subscription-remote-start-key-fob https://www.theverge.com/2021/12/12/22831105/toyota-subscrip... [1] https://www.thedrive.com/news/34547/bmw-is-planning-to-sell-heated-seats-and-more-as-a-subscription-no-really https://www.thedrive.com/news/34547/bmw-is-planning-to-sell-...