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Python isn't really a mess (certainly less messy than MATLAB IMO) but the issue is that many practitioners are basically thrown at the language without any real

by mhh__ 5y ago

Python isn't really a mess (certainly less messy than MATLAB IMO) but the issue is that many practitioners are basically thrown at the language without any real caution or care. A modern python (e.g. anaconda?) distribution is a pretty formidable tool (for some things I'd definitely take Mathematica any day, but I don't really code in mathematica vs. sketch) - the people using that distribution however may also not know anything about good practice. Python unfortunately is far too allowing of this, too, so some scripts are a genuinely hell. I'm a physics student currently working as a programmer, 2/5 lines of code I see in my department would be enough to request changes from a patch. I daydream about teaching them but that's never going to happen. At work we actually developed a functional language (nee DSL) specifically to funnel people down exactly the places we want.

analog31 5y ago
I'm a fan of WinPython, though it's only for Windows. It let me get started quickly, while also providing access to the standard tools such as pip. For virtually everything I've done, either pip or "python setup.py install" have been successful. The nicest thing about WinPython is that if I mess it up, I can just erase it and start over. I can also test my code on a "clean" distribution, to make sure that my installation instructions are valid. The practice in my team is that you can start out any way you want, but you're expected to begin learning batter practices as your projects mature. And we have a couple people who can teach you. Though I was the one who introduced Python to my work site, I'm also one of the ones who needs to continue learning better programming practices. It's sad that there is virtually no decent training for scientists who want to be better programmers. There's certainly a cacophony of advice, much of it conflicting or too complicated to be credible. Maybe it's not widespread, but when "scientific" programming is mentioned, there are always a lot of comments to the effect that we shouldn't be programming at all without a license. Likewise for the use of Excel. Instead, scientists are left to figure things out for ourselves, like we've been doing anyway since the dawn of time.
- mhh__ 5y ago
  The issue as well, I think, is that prior to them leaving a lot of the programming enthusiasts are actually undergraduates, who might as well be vermin as far as some faculty are concerned so there is almost no spreading of information. I remember getting told off for saying tuple "instead of table" which was depressing.

by mhh__ 5y ago

analog31 5y ago

I'm a fan of WinPython, though it's only for Windows. It let me get started quickly, while also providing access to the standard tools such as pip. For virtually everything I've done, either pip or "python setup.py install" have been successful. The nicest thing about WinPython is that if I mess it up, I can just erase it and start over. I can also test my code on a "clean" distribution, to make sure that my installation instructions are valid. The practice in my team is that you can start out any way you want, but you're expected to begin learning batter practices as your projects mature. And we have a couple people who can teach you. Though I was the one who introduced Python to my work site, I'm also one of the ones who needs to continue learning better programming practices. It's sad that there is virtually no decent training for scientists who want to be better programmers. There's certainly a cacophony of advice, much of it conflicting or too complicated to be credible. Maybe it's not widespread, but when "scientific" programming is mentioned, there are always a lot of comments to the effect that we shouldn't be programming at all without a license. Likewise for the use of Excel. Instead, scientists are left to figure things out for ourselves, like we've been doing anyway since the dawn of time.

mhh__ 5y ago
The issue as well, I think, is that prior to them leaving a lot of the programming enthusiasts are actually undergraduates, who might as well be vermin as far as some faculty are concerned so there is almost no spreading of information. I remember getting told off for saying tuple "instead of table" which was depressing.