10 ms·

I updated to 11 on my laptop but kept 10 on my main machine. I see zero reason to update my main computer to 11. I was willing to give centered start button a t

I updated to 11 on my laptop but kept 10 on my main machine. I see zero reason to update my main computer to 11. I was willing to give centered start button a try but the fact that you can't turn off grouping of applications in the taskbar is a deal breaker. If I have two firefox windows open I want to know it and to be able to pick which one I want without having to hover my mouse over the icon for a second while the picture of the windows pops up. So I installed Explorer patcher to get the old taskbar back https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher Other than that the only feature of 11 that I have used is the snap zones. And I guess if I want that I can install the power toy it is based on.

deleted 5y ago
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GordonS 5y ago
> the fact that you can't turn off grouping of applications in the taskbar is a deal breaker Ach, that's a deal breaker for me too - it's one of the first things I disable on a new Win10 install. I didn't know about this, so thanks for giving me another reason to stick with 10!
delecti 5y ago
If you use the Windows+# shortcuts it's pretty easy to navigate multiple instances of an application. I don't know how the ordering works with the centered start button, but traditionally, the left-most application can be switched to by pushing Win+1. The second instance of the first can be switched to by holding Win and then pushing 1 twice. That's been available since Vista. I don't want to excuse taking options away from users, but there are workarounds.
- frosted-flakes 5y ago
  It still works this way, but I find having to figure out which number to press is too slow. There's a utility that adds numbers to the taskbar buttons when the start key is held down, called 7+ Taskbar Numberer, but it doesn't work on Windows 11. https://ramensoftware.com/7-taskbar-numberer https://ramensoftware.com/7-taskbar-numberer
  - delecti 5y ago
    If you lock programs to the taskbar in a consistent order you can build some muscle memory. For me, 1 is always my browser, 2 is file explorer, 3 is notepad++, and 4+ depends on whether I'm on a work or personal machine (discord at home, outlook at work, etc). The result is that no matter what machine I'm using, I can always alternate between my browsers with Win+1.
milkytron 5y ago
I wonder if something like Cairo is compatible or will be with 11. It has good support for grouping in the taskbar. On my 10 machine I use it and find it so much more pleasing than the default desktop. https://cairoshell.com/ https://cairoshell.com/
efraim 5y ago
On windows 10, holding down the ctrl-button while clicking on the icon will switch to the recently used instance and if you keep clicking it will cycle through the open instances. If you want this behaviour as standard, you can enable it by editing the register. https://www.maketecheasier.com/enable-last-active-click-windows-taskbar/ https://www.maketecheasier.com/enable-last-active-click-wind...
- zibzab 5y ago
  Thanks man, TIL! Too bad ctrl-click means new instance on gnome, I'm bound to confuse the two now...
  - efraim 5y ago
    In windows, shift-clicking or middle clicking opens a new instance
greggman3 5y ago
It could be worse. You could be on MacOS where Cmd-Tab switches between apps not windows. I currently have 13 browser windows open (each with 3 to 15 tabs) and another 9 windows of other things (terminal, vscode, etc....) and IMO The Cmd-Tab vs Ctrl-Tab vs Ctrl-Up vs Ctrl-Down suck compared to Windows. I really want to easily switch to the previous window, not the previous app. Command + backtick doesn't work either. It doesn't switch to the previous window. It switches to the previous window "in the same app" which is not actually the previous window as that could be from another app.
- ggfgg 5y ago
  Honestly that sounds like you aren’t garbage collecting enough. I have perhaps 3-5 tabs open in one browser and 3-5 apps open at any time. Also working in VSCode, terminals and browser mostly. I coworker runs his windows box with about 100 tabs iOS. Sometimes. Just close some shit.
  - williamdclt 5y ago
    I tend to agree. I have one window from each app open at any time, and dedicated hotkeys to bring up each app. Having to guess how many cmd+tab I'd need to get to the app I want breaks my flow so I set up opt+h to bring up Firefox, opt+j VSCode, opt+k Slack etc etc. But obviously, to each their workflow!
- mitemte 5y ago
  Maybe you’d like this: https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab-macos https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab-macos
  - SparkyMcUnicorn 5y ago
    Yeah, this app improved my entire life.
- blacksmith_tb 5y ago
  Hmm, I find it pretty practical, cmd-tab from one app to another, cmd-backtick to toggle between windows, I mean, it's a different paradigm, sure, but you can still move around from the keyboard? I do find it a little annoying that there aren't consistent shortcuts for moving between tabs in everything that uses them, could be cntrl-tab, could be alt-arrows...
aufhebung 5y ago
The centered start menu is terrible UX. In 10 you just move your mouse to the bottom corner, where in 11 the position changes. Of course, everyone except your grandma knows you can just press the windows key on your keyboard to open the menu. But grandma is also the person least likely to have the dexterity to hit the tiny button in the middle left of the screen.
- keithnz 5y ago
  I think the grandma case is just made up. I've seen older people use win11 just fine, they aren't so incompetent that they can't click a button on their task bar. If they are having trouble with that, then even if they could get to the windows button easily in the corner, they'd have a tricky job clicking any of the things that come up in the windows menu which are all the same size, and now, not even aligned to the bottom edge of the screen! Poor Grandma :) Also on big screens the centered taskbar is great
  - contravariant 5y ago
    This isn't about being competent this is about stuff in corners of the screen being easier to hit.
    - duskwuff 5y ago
      Right. Specifically, a target in the corner of the screen has effectively infinite size with regards to Fitts's law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law#Implications_for_UI_design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law#Implications_for...
    - keithnz 5y ago
      key word being "easier". Thing is, when something is already easy, claiming "easier" is better isn't really a thing. Given clicking on the windows icon is actually a "sometimes" activity, it doesn't need to be optimized to be the easiest thing.
Deutscher 5y ago
re: Explorer Patcher, does it allow the (W11/W10) taskbar to be moved to one of the vertical edges? The github page doesn't mention this. I prefer the taskbar on the left and the fact that a vertical taskbar is not supported on W11 is one of the principal reasons I haven't upgraded from W10.
pers0n 5y ago
What powertoy does snap zones?
TheAdamist 5y ago
I'm annoyed they removed the ability to move the start bar, on a widescreen monitor the side seems far superior to the bottom for me, far less wasted empty space.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

GordonS 5y ago

> the fact that you can't turn off grouping of applications in the taskbar is a deal breaker Ach, that's a deal breaker for me too - it's one of the first things I disable on a new Win10 install. I didn't know about this, so thanks for giving me another reason to stick with 10!

delecti 5y ago

If you use the Windows+# shortcuts it's pretty easy to navigate multiple instances of an application. I don't know how the ordering works with the centered start button, but traditionally, the left-most application can be switched to by pushing Win+1. The second instance of the first can be switched to by holding Win and then pushing 1 twice. That's been available since Vista. I don't want to excuse taking options away from users, but there are workarounds.

frosted-flakes 5y ago
It still works this way, but I find having to figure out which number to press is too slow. There's a utility that adds numbers to the taskbar buttons when the start key is held down, called 7+ Taskbar Numberer, but it doesn't work on Windows 11. https://ramensoftware.com/7-taskbar-numberer https://ramensoftware.com/7-taskbar-numberer
- delecti 5y ago
  If you lock programs to the taskbar in a consistent order you can build some muscle memory. For me, 1 is always my browser, 2 is file explorer, 3 is notepad++, and 4+ depends on whether I'm on a work or personal machine (discord at home, outlook at work, etc). The result is that no matter what machine I'm using, I can always alternate between my browsers with Win+1.

milkytron 5y ago

I wonder if something like Cairo is compatible or will be with 11. It has good support for grouping in the taskbar. On my 10 machine I use it and find it so much more pleasing than the default desktop. https://cairoshell.com/ https://cairoshell.com/

efraim 5y ago

On windows 10, holding down the ctrl-button while clicking on the icon will switch to the recently used instance and if you keep clicking it will cycle through the open instances. If you want this behaviour as standard, you can enable it by editing the register. https://www.maketecheasier.com/enable-last-active-click-windows-taskbar/ https://www.maketecheasier.com/enable-last-active-click-wind...

zibzab 5y ago
Thanks man, TIL! Too bad ctrl-click means new instance on gnome, I'm bound to confuse the two now...
- efraim 5y ago
  In windows, shift-clicking or middle clicking opens a new instance

greggman3 5y ago

It could be worse. You could be on MacOS where Cmd-Tab switches between apps not windows. I currently have 13 browser windows open (each with 3 to 15 tabs) and another 9 windows of other things (terminal, vscode, etc....) and IMO The Cmd-Tab vs Ctrl-Tab vs Ctrl-Up vs Ctrl-Down suck compared to Windows. I really want to easily switch to the previous window, not the previous app. Command + backtick doesn't work either. It doesn't switch to the previous window. It switches to the previous window "in the same app" which is not actually the previous window as that could be from another app.

ggfgg 5y ago
Honestly that sounds like you aren’t garbage collecting enough. I have perhaps 3-5 tabs open in one browser and 3-5 apps open at any time. Also working in VSCode, terminals and browser mostly. I coworker runs his windows box with about 100 tabs iOS. Sometimes. Just close some shit.
- williamdclt 5y ago
  I tend to agree. I have one window from each app open at any time, and dedicated hotkeys to bring up each app. Having to guess how many cmd+tab I'd need to get to the app I want breaks my flow so I set up opt+h to bring up Firefox, opt+j VSCode, opt+k Slack etc etc. But obviously, to each their workflow!
mitemte 5y ago
Maybe you’d like this: https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab-macos https://github.com/lwouis/alt-tab-macos
- SparkyMcUnicorn 5y ago
  Yeah, this app improved my entire life.
blacksmith_tb 5y ago
Hmm, I find it pretty practical, cmd-tab from one app to another, cmd-backtick to toggle between windows, I mean, it's a different paradigm, sure, but you can still move around from the keyboard? I do find it a little annoying that there aren't consistent shortcuts for moving between tabs in everything that uses them, could be cntrl-tab, could be alt-arrows...

aufhebung 5y ago

The centered start menu is terrible UX. In 10 you just move your mouse to the bottom corner, where in 11 the position changes. Of course, everyone except your grandma knows you can just press the windows key on your keyboard to open the menu. But grandma is also the person least likely to have the dexterity to hit the tiny button in the middle left of the screen.

keithnz 5y ago
I think the grandma case is just made up. I've seen older people use win11 just fine, they aren't so incompetent that they can't click a button on their task bar. If they are having trouble with that, then even if they could get to the windows button easily in the corner, they'd have a tricky job clicking any of the things that come up in the windows menu which are all the same size, and now, not even aligned to the bottom edge of the screen! Poor Grandma :) Also on big screens the centered taskbar is great
- contravariant 5y ago
  This isn't about being competent this is about stuff in corners of the screen being easier to hit.
  - duskwuff 5y ago
    Right. Specifically, a target in the corner of the screen has effectively infinite size with regards to Fitts's law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law#Implications_for_UI_design https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts%27s_law#Implications_for...
  - keithnz 5y ago
    key word being "easier". Thing is, when something is already easy, claiming "easier" is better isn't really a thing. Given clicking on the windows icon is actually a "sometimes" activity, it doesn't need to be optimized to be the easiest thing.

Deutscher 5y ago

re: Explorer Patcher, does it allow the (W11/W10) taskbar to be moved to one of the vertical edges? The github page doesn't mention this. I prefer the taskbar on the left and the fact that a vertical taskbar is not supported on W11 is one of the principal reasons I haven't upgraded from W10.

pers0n 5y ago

What powertoy does snap zones?

TheAdamist 5y ago

I'm annoyed they removed the ability to move the start bar, on a widescreen monitor the side seems far superior to the bottom for me, far less wasted empty space.