4 ms·

Ask HN: Why does "remote" in a job posting really mean "remote...from the US"?

Recently, I've been looking to relocate outside of the US. The city I would be relocating to is one of the largest cities in the world. There is reliable (cheap!) internet service, and the government is reasonably open regarding internet access (at least on par with, for example, Australia). In fact, I've already worked remotely from this location for short (2 week) stints in the past, and I found I had no problem getting the work done or keeping in touch with the team. So why is it that every time I respond to a job advertisement claiming a "remote" position, the recruiters hesitate as soon as I mention moving away from the US? My understanding is that the burden of working out tax and other monetary considerations would be completely on me. I'm more than happy to adjust my schedule to the time-zone of the majority of the rest of the team. Obviously, I could understand why some sectors of the industry would be wary (issues with export controls, etc.), but even basic web shops have been hesitating or outright turning me down. So my question is: is there some legitimate business concern to limit remote workers to "within the US"? or is reluctance to hire overseas remote employees based primarily on unfounded fears? What should I be doing to improve my odds of finding the right position?

fishtoaster 15y ago
Benefits (eg, healthcare) might be difficult to extend overseas, as compared to within the US, especially for smaller companies. Further, there might be some general hesitancy due to fear of the unknown. A small company might have few or no dedicated HR staff who are familiar with the legal and financial ramifications of dealing with paying someone overseas. Even if it is the case that it's pretty easy to do, they don't have anyone who knows that for sure. Edit: It also occurs to me that if they need you to come in in person on rare occasions, it costs more money and effort to do that from outside the US than inside.
- WantToBeAnExpat 15y ago
  I've heard/suspected concerns with benefits, but I find this to be, well...laughable! Consider that healthcare costs in the US are some of the highest of anywhere in the world. Specifically, I've already priced health insurance costs for my family, and they would come to $6000 (USD) per year to cover everyone.
  - sixtofour 15y ago
    But a company that offers benefits already has an insurance contract with a broker and provider. That policy probably doesn't cover anyone outside the country; it may not even cover people in or out of certain states. So your remote benefits, while possibly cheaper, are a one-off, and a company may be reluctant to bother with such an unknown.
nirvana 15y ago
In my experiences dealing with recruiters, they have trouble with the basics, like knowing the difference between java and javascript, and expecting them to be able to handle a resume in PDF form is sometimes too much. I think the problem might be that you're dealing with recruiters. If you're a US citizen, it really shouldn't matter that you're remote. We've been outside the US for quite awhile and as far as any of the legal or other issues, we're still US citizens. We have US mailing addresses, US health insurance (that covers us worldwide, we checked on that) etc. Fortunately, I don't have to work for an employer, but if I was working for others, I'd tend to structure things as a contractor or as a corporate entity that they were hiring to do work. this makes things easier for them, and actually cheaper which means you can charge more and possibly more financially efficient (if they are paying for overhead that you don't have and wouldn't use as an employee.) Not exactly in the same situation as you, but that's roughly how we're handling things. We formed a corporation and when we need to deal with other business it is as a corporation.
rorrr 15y ago
Because 1) Taxes 2) Legal issues (much easier to deal with problems in a local jurisdiction) 3) In India, for example, there's a culture now that everyone wants to become a developer, because that's where the money is. It resulted in the markets full full of talentless hacks who took 3 months of some HTML/Javascript/PHP courses and call themselves programmers. I had to work with some of these guys, they truly don't get programming, and spend 10 to 100 more time to do anything compared to your average local programmer. Don't get me wrong, there are many talented programmers in India, it's just your chances of finding one are pretty slim.
byoung2 15y ago
If it is possible, could you have them hire you as a 1099 contractor instead of an employee? You would be in charge of taxes and benefits since you would technically be working for yourself (and they would have less say over where and how you do your job). You could start the job while living in the US, and then after you have worked for them for a few months and earned their trust, you could then inform them that you are relocating to another country. Tim Feriss would say that you should inform them after you have already been working from your new location for some time.
- WantToBeAnExpat 15y ago
  This approach has definitely crossed my mind. I would prefer the relative stability of a full-time gig (well, mostly I would prefer the 401k), but I think going the 1099 route might be my best bet.

fishtoaster 15y ago

Benefits (eg, healthcare) might be difficult to extend overseas, as compared to within the US, especially for smaller companies. Further, there might be some general hesitancy due to fear of the unknown. A small company might have few or no dedicated HR staff who are familiar with the legal and financial ramifications of dealing with paying someone overseas. Even if it is the case that it's pretty easy to do, they don't have anyone who knows that for sure. Edit: It also occurs to me that if they need you to come in in person on rare occasions, it costs more money and effort to do that from outside the US than inside.

WantToBeAnExpat 15y ago
I've heard/suspected concerns with benefits, but I find this to be, well...laughable! Consider that healthcare costs in the US are some of the highest of anywhere in the world. Specifically, I've already priced health insurance costs for my family, and they would come to $6000 (USD) per year to cover everyone.
- sixtofour 15y ago
  But a company that offers benefits already has an insurance contract with a broker and provider. That policy probably doesn't cover anyone outside the country; it may not even cover people in or out of certain states. So your remote benefits, while possibly cheaper, are a one-off, and a company may be reluctant to bother with such an unknown.

nirvana 15y ago

In my experiences dealing with recruiters, they have trouble with the basics, like knowing the difference between java and javascript, and expecting them to be able to handle a resume in PDF form is sometimes too much. I think the problem might be that you're dealing with recruiters. If you're a US citizen, it really shouldn't matter that you're remote. We've been outside the US for quite awhile and as far as any of the legal or other issues, we're still US citizens. We have US mailing addresses, US health insurance (that covers us worldwide, we checked on that) etc. Fortunately, I don't have to work for an employer, but if I was working for others, I'd tend to structure things as a contractor or as a corporate entity that they were hiring to do work. this makes things easier for them, and actually cheaper which means you can charge more and possibly more financially efficient (if they are paying for overhead that you don't have and wouldn't use as an employee.) Not exactly in the same situation as you, but that's roughly how we're handling things. We formed a corporation and when we need to deal with other business it is as a corporation.

rorrr 15y ago

Because 1) Taxes 2) Legal issues (much easier to deal with problems in a local jurisdiction) 3) In India, for example, there's a culture now that everyone wants to become a developer, because that's where the money is. It resulted in the markets full full of talentless hacks who took 3 months of some HTML/Javascript/PHP courses and call themselves programmers. I had to work with some of these guys, they truly don't get programming, and spend 10 to 100 more time to do anything compared to your average local programmer. Don't get me wrong, there are many talented programmers in India, it's just your chances of finding one are pretty slim.

byoung2 15y ago

If it is possible, could you have them hire you as a 1099 contractor instead of an employee? You would be in charge of taxes and benefits since you would technically be working for yourself (and they would have less say over where and how you do your job). You could start the job while living in the US, and then after you have worked for them for a few months and earned their trust, you could then inform them that you are relocating to another country. Tim Feriss would say that you should inform them after you have already been working from your new location for some time.

WantToBeAnExpat 15y ago
This approach has definitely crossed my mind. I would prefer the relative stability of a full-time gig (well, mostly I would prefer the 401k), but I think going the 1099 route might be my best bet.