6 ms·

Women with four children will most likely be full time moms for the majority of their productive lives so that's a pointless benefit, unless this policy manages

Women with four children will most likely be full time moms for the majority of their productive lives so that's a pointless benefit, unless this policy manages to somehow reverse gender roles as well.

inglor_cz 5y ago
Even if said lady only rejoins the workforce for 20 years, the savings are fairly significant. Also, knowing Hungary, this is probably intended as a subtle disincentive for the local Roma ghetto population. All the Central and Eastern European states fiddle with their welfare systems not to incentivize higher birthrates among the Roma ghetto population, even if they do not want to state this aloud. That is why the benefits target taxes, which you only pay if you actually work.
- akudha 5y ago
  Not familiar with Roma, whats wrong with them?
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    Recently (1940s-1950s) forcibly settled former nomads whose culture hasn't yet made the necessary switch. To be fair, it took our Neolithic ancestors much longer than a few generations to adapt, too. Basically, not enough education and a lot of crime in the community. Combined with enormous brain drain, because whoever manages to succeed a bit, moves away and marries into the majority population, thus disappearing as a potential positive influence. This is one of the notorious ghettos in Slovakia, a neighbourhood called Luník IX: https://goo.gl/maps/KPnGTyBtX3NDTpdP6 https://goo.gl/maps/KPnGTyBtX3NDTpdP6
    - akudha 5y ago
      Thank you. That is one scary looking building!
    - CommieBobDole 5y ago
      The other side of that same building looks even worse: https://goo.gl/maps/awS5Khbe17tqS18m9 https://goo.gl/maps/awS5Khbe17tqS18m9
  - baskethead 5y ago
    They are gypsies, aren’t they?
    - bboreham 5y ago
      “Gypsies [is] pejorative due to its connotations of illegality and irregularity as well as its historical use as a racial slur.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people
      - baskethead 5y ago
        Interesting I didn’t know that. Learn a new thing every day. I’ll remember this for the next time, thanks.
        mensetmanusman 5y ago
        Too bad there isn’t a list of offensive terms that is updated daily. Even saying ‘Happy Holiday’s’ is apparently offensive.
      - unmole 5y ago
        > many other languages, regarding cognates of the word, such as French: Tzigane, Spanish: gitano, Italian: zingaro and Portuguese: cigano, this perception is either very small or non-existent.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    Anti-ziganism at work, it's a tried European tradition dating back hundreds of years (per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Romani_sentiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Romani_sentiment). Basically, an awful lot of cliches and self-fulfilling prophecies (such as limiting the employment of Sinti and Roma because of a fear of them being criminal leading to the affected going the criminal route just to survive).
woodruffw 5y ago
Given Orban's other political proclivities, enforcing traditional gender roles is likely an intentional outcome of this policy.
- frosted-flakes 5y ago
  What? This policy should incentivize stay-at-home mothers to re-enter the workforce after their children are grown, because no income tax is essentially a pay raise compared to people who aren't eligible.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    An incentive that is completely offset by the professional and career consequences of leaving one's industry for nearly two decades. Many women struggle to resume their careers after just a year or two of absence -- are we supposed to seriously believe that Hungarian employers will shrug off an entire child's development worth of absence? There is always an incentive to re-enter the workforce, in the sense that you (hopefully) get paid to work. But the existence of an incentive doesn't mean that incentive is sufficient. In the absence of other incentives and the presence of Orban's reactionary social politics, it's unlikely that this one is sufficient.
    - frosted-flakes 5y ago
      Better than stay-at-home mothers not re-entering the workforce. Which is the alternative.
      - decremental 5y ago
        I don't get why mothers not being at home is seen as bad. As though it's a greater good for society that instead they're punching in numbers into a spreadsheet at a widget factory. Sounds to me like the only winner there is the widget factory. It didn't used to have to be this way and maybe we should figure out why it has to be that way now, then fix that.
post_from_work 5y ago
Start a company, set yourself as COO, Board Chairman, majority shareholder, etc...but with a minimum wage salary. Set your wife as the CEO. Pop out 4 kids. Pay her an 8 figure salary. Your wife can be a full-time mom and print money at the same time, with no practical change in gender roles.

inglor_cz 5y ago

Even if said lady only rejoins the workforce for 20 years, the savings are fairly significant. Also, knowing Hungary, this is probably intended as a subtle disincentive for the local Roma ghetto population. All the Central and Eastern European states fiddle with their welfare systems not to incentivize higher birthrates among the Roma ghetto population, even if they do not want to state this aloud. That is why the benefits target taxes, which you only pay if you actually work.

akudha 5y ago
Not familiar with Roma, whats wrong with them?
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  Recently (1940s-1950s) forcibly settled former nomads whose culture hasn't yet made the necessary switch. To be fair, it took our Neolithic ancestors much longer than a few generations to adapt, too. Basically, not enough education and a lot of crime in the community. Combined with enormous brain drain, because whoever manages to succeed a bit, moves away and marries into the majority population, thus disappearing as a potential positive influence. This is one of the notorious ghettos in Slovakia, a neighbourhood called Luník IX: https://goo.gl/maps/KPnGTyBtX3NDTpdP6 https://goo.gl/maps/KPnGTyBtX3NDTpdP6
  - akudha 5y ago
    Thank you. That is one scary looking building!
  - CommieBobDole 5y ago
    The other side of that same building looks even worse: https://goo.gl/maps/awS5Khbe17tqS18m9 https://goo.gl/maps/awS5Khbe17tqS18m9
- baskethead 5y ago
  They are gypsies, aren’t they?
  - bboreham 5y ago
    “Gypsies [is] pejorative due to its connotations of illegality and irregularity as well as its historical use as a racial slur.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people
    - baskethead 5y ago
      Interesting I didn’t know that. Learn a new thing every day. I’ll remember this for the next time, thanks.
      - mensetmanusman 5y ago
        Too bad there isn’t a list of offensive terms that is updated daily. Even saying ‘Happy Holiday’s’ is apparently offensive.
    - unmole 5y ago
      > many other languages, regarding cognates of the word, such as French: Tzigane, Spanish: gitano, Italian: zingaro and Portuguese: cigano, this perception is either very small or non-existent.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  Anti-ziganism at work, it's a tried European tradition dating back hundreds of years (per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Romani_sentiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Romani_sentiment). Basically, an awful lot of cliches and self-fulfilling prophecies (such as limiting the employment of Sinti and Roma because of a fear of them being criminal leading to the affected going the criminal route just to survive).

woodruffw 5y ago

Given Orban's other political proclivities, enforcing traditional gender roles is likely an intentional outcome of this policy.

frosted-flakes 5y ago
What? This policy should incentivize stay-at-home mothers to re-enter the workforce after their children are grown, because no income tax is essentially a pay raise compared to people who aren't eligible.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  An incentive that is completely offset by the professional and career consequences of leaving one's industry for nearly two decades. Many women struggle to resume their careers after just a year or two of absence -- are we supposed to seriously believe that Hungarian employers will shrug off an entire child's development worth of absence? There is always an incentive to re-enter the workforce, in the sense that you (hopefully) get paid to work. But the existence of an incentive doesn't mean that incentive is sufficient. In the absence of other incentives and the presence of Orban's reactionary social politics, it's unlikely that this one is sufficient.
  - frosted-flakes 5y ago
    Better than stay-at-home mothers not re-entering the workforce. Which is the alternative.
    - decremental 5y ago
      I don't get why mothers not being at home is seen as bad. As though it's a greater good for society that instead they're punching in numbers into a spreadsheet at a widget factory. Sounds to me like the only winner there is the widget factory. It didn't used to have to be this way and maybe we should figure out why it has to be that way now, then fix that.

post_from_work 5y ago

Start a company, set yourself as COO, Board Chairman, majority shareholder, etc...but with a minimum wage salary. Set your wife as the CEO. Pop out 4 kids. Pay her an 8 figure salary. Your wife can be a full-time mom and print money at the same time, with no practical change in gender roles.