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Let's chat about "proof-of-waste" again when in a few years central banks will have created so much inflation and enabled so much unsound government budgeting (

by ephbit 5y ago

Let's chat about "proof-of-waste" again when in a few years central banks will have created so much inflation and enabled so much unsound government budgeting (simulaneously making inequality explode) that "proof-of-waste" will have become one of (if not) the most important non-manipulable linchpins that will coerce central banks to return to a less inflationary path. Just listen to what's happending in Turkey right now.

verytrivial 5y ago
So, let's solve corruption with more corruption. No. Regrettably I've read the first half of The Sovereign Individual and it's all about shifting obscene wealth around, not improving the lot of the average human -- that fig leaf covers nothing.
optimalsolver 5y ago
Meanwhile, at Tether HQ...
simonh 5y ago
I understand where you are right now, but the fact is central banks aren’t knowingly creating inequality, and aside from the ponzi scheme aspect the only economic use of cryptocurrencies is financing crime. I’m not going to persuade you now, so I wont try. Put a pin in your expectations for the future and revisit this in a few years or a decade’s time. Look at whether any of the extreme outcomes you are predicting now came anywhere even close to actually happening, and why they didn’t happen. Look back now at your opinions in the past of what extreme outcomes would have happened by now. Has any of it come to pass? Crypto in particular was supposed to have taken over as the payment method of choice, with near costless micro transactions funding amazing new businesses previously impossible. Instead it’s turned into a ridiculous ponzi cult, criminal financing network, and a way for wealthy dilettantes and rich world teenage gamers to collect imaginary fashion statements. It’s an utter farce and a complete betrayal of its founding principles and goals.
- aww_dang 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cantillon#:~:text=Furthermore%2C%20he%20posited%20that%20the%20original%20recipients%20of%20new%20money%20enjoy%20higher%20standards%20of%20living%20at%20the%20expense%20of%20later%20recipients.%5B63%5D%20The%20concept%20of%20relative%20inflation%2C%20or%20a%20disproportionate%20rise%20in%20prices%20among%20different%20goods%20in%20an%20economy%2C%20is%20now%20known%20as%20the%20Cantillon%20Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cantillon#:~:text=Furt... >...central banks aren’t knowingly creating inequality... They're just inflating asset prices and protecting investor classes at the expense of the rest of the economy. Disrupting the price discovery mechanism comes at a cost. Perhaps some here would propose that these activities come at no cost or are otherwise a free lunch. https://www.google.com/search?q=revolving+door+wallstreet+federal+reserve https://www.google.com/search?q=revolving+door+wallstreet+fe... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Powell#Legal_and_investment_banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Powell#Legal_and_invest... As for crypto, I am also disappointed. Many of the goals you listed have been accomplished technically. Unfortunately most people don't care. The speculative aspects trump the technology.
  - ephbit 5y ago
    > Perhaps some here would propose that these activities come at no cost or are otherwise a free lunch. Many people don't want to believe that the whole money system is a zero sum game. But it is. Just because people can't observe any change whatsoever when they're watching the numbers in their bank account while the central bank buys another chunk of bonds or lowers the interest rate, (in fact with negative interest being forwarded to end customers, people can actually see), doesn't mean the central bank's actions don't have any consequences for them. Just because there's a long and not exactly transparent path of connections between the value of some money in a bank account and the actions of a central bank doesn't mean the two are not linked in a very grievous way. Things exist despite being hard to spot/grasp. > Many of the goals you listed have been accomplished technically. Unfortunately most people don't care. Countries such as Lebanon or Argentina serve as examples for the obvious effect that beyond a certain level of inflation, people start to care. Turkey banned bitcoin but with inflationary pressure being as high as it is, the story is not yet over I'd bet.
CRConrad 5y ago
> central banks will have created so much inflation and enabled so much unsound government budgeting (simulaneously making inequality explode) that "proof-of-waste" will have become one of (if not) the most important non-manipulable linchpins that will coerce central banks to return to a less inflationary path How and why will they do that? If WasteCoin were to become the dominant form of currency, all the shit that's happening with real currencies now would just happen with WasteCoin instead. Except that it will also waste a fuckton of energy, laying waste (Heh!) to the environment all over the globe. It's almost unfathomable what an utterly weird delusion WasteCoin proponents live in.

by ephbit 5y ago

verytrivial 5y ago

So, let's solve corruption with more corruption. No. Regrettably I've read the first half of The Sovereign Individual and it's all about shifting obscene wealth around, not improving the lot of the average human -- that fig leaf covers nothing.

optimalsolver 5y ago

Meanwhile, at Tether HQ...

simonh 5y ago

I understand where you are right now, but the fact is central banks aren’t knowingly creating inequality, and aside from the ponzi scheme aspect the only economic use of cryptocurrencies is financing crime. I’m not going to persuade you now, so I wont try. Put a pin in your expectations for the future and revisit this in a few years or a decade’s time. Look at whether any of the extreme outcomes you are predicting now came anywhere even close to actually happening, and why they didn’t happen. Look back now at your opinions in the past of what extreme outcomes would have happened by now. Has any of it come to pass? Crypto in particular was supposed to have taken over as the payment method of choice, with near costless micro transactions funding amazing new businesses previously impossible. Instead it’s turned into a ridiculous ponzi cult, criminal financing network, and a way for wealthy dilettantes and rich world teenage gamers to collect imaginary fashion statements. It’s an utter farce and a complete betrayal of its founding principles and goals.

aww_dang 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cantillon#:~:text=Furthermore%2C%20he%20posited%20that%20the%20original%20recipients%20of%20new%20money%20enjoy%20higher%20standards%20of%20living%20at%20the%20expense%20of%20later%20recipients.%5B63%5D%20The%20concept%20of%20relative%20inflation%2C%20or%20a%20disproportionate%20rise%20in%20prices%20among%20different%20goods%20in%20an%20economy%2C%20is%20now%20known%20as%20the%20Cantillon%20Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Cantillon#:~:text=Furt... >...central banks aren’t knowingly creating inequality... They're just inflating asset prices and protecting investor classes at the expense of the rest of the economy. Disrupting the price discovery mechanism comes at a cost. Perhaps some here would propose that these activities come at no cost or are otherwise a free lunch. https://www.google.com/search?q=revolving+door+wallstreet+federal+reserve https://www.google.com/search?q=revolving+door+wallstreet+fe... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Powell#Legal_and_investment_banking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Powell#Legal_and_invest... As for crypto, I am also disappointed. Many of the goals you listed have been accomplished technically. Unfortunately most people don't care. The speculative aspects trump the technology.
- ephbit 5y ago
  > Perhaps some here would propose that these activities come at no cost or are otherwise a free lunch. Many people don't want to believe that the whole money system is a zero sum game. But it is. Just because people can't observe any change whatsoever when they're watching the numbers in their bank account while the central bank buys another chunk of bonds or lowers the interest rate, (in fact with negative interest being forwarded to end customers, people can actually see), doesn't mean the central bank's actions don't have any consequences for them. Just because there's a long and not exactly transparent path of connections between the value of some money in a bank account and the actions of a central bank doesn't mean the two are not linked in a very grievous way. Things exist despite being hard to spot/grasp. > Many of the goals you listed have been accomplished technically. Unfortunately most people don't care. Countries such as Lebanon or Argentina serve as examples for the obvious effect that beyond a certain level of inflation, people start to care. Turkey banned bitcoin but with inflationary pressure being as high as it is, the story is not yet over I'd bet.

CRConrad 5y ago

> central banks will have created so much inflation and enabled so much unsound government budgeting (simulaneously making inequality explode) that "proof-of-waste" will have become one of (if not) the most important non-manipulable linchpins that will coerce central banks to return to a less inflationary path How and why will they do that? If WasteCoin were to become the dominant form of currency, all the shit that's happening with real currencies now would just happen with WasteCoin instead. Except that it will also waste a fuckton of energy, laying waste (Heh!) to the environment all over the globe. It's almost unfathomable what an utterly weird delusion WasteCoin proponents live in.