3 ms·

Even if lower neutralization, higher antibody loads post booster (much larger than post second dose). I wonder how this works with Moderna’s lower dosage shots.

Amezarak 5y ago
I have been skeptical that antibodies are a good proxy for vaccine effectiveness. Your immune system "remembers" how to create antibodies, and there's no clear reason why it would continue to produce them after an infection has been eradicated. So I would expect antibody levels to always drop off naturally over time until your next exposure (or vaccine) with little or no impact on actual effectiveness, regardless of the virus or vaccine. I mean, I suppose that also suggests that "high antibody loads" indicate your immune system is an a high-alert state against coronavirus, actively fighting the virus (or what it thinks is the virus, the vaccine) and a "low" load a less alert state, so perhaps the rapid immune response in a "high alert" state is better...but surely there is some reason our immune system doesn't remain in a high-alert state indefinitely? [Edit - plus, of course, antibodies are far from the only immune response, they're just the easiest to measure, something that also makes me very leery of their use as a metric.]
- zpeti 5y ago
  I think you are right, and I think health officials and politicians basically want society’s immune system to be on high alert for a long time. I have no idea scientifically how good an idea that is. Second shots have a higher risk of myocardiatis, what about third, fourth, fifth? At what point can you let go and rely on T cell immunity?
- acdha 5y ago
  This is the reason for the split between getting sick and having a severe case. In pandemic conditions, having antibodies present is desirable means you’re less likely to spread it to someone else because the virus doesn’t have time to replicate much before your immune system fights it off.
  - Amezarak 5y ago
    How much are antibodies present in your sinuses versus your bloodstream or various organs? My layman education here would suggest that antibodies are not really a big factor with the initial infection and spread, only when someone develops a serious infection and is sick enough they probably aren't walking around willy-nilly in public anyway. So that would explain why the vaccine protects against serious illness, but is less helpful in preventing infection and spread. [EDIT: A quick google suggests that, fascinatingly, the mucosal system in your sinuses apparently has its own independent antibody development and production. The vaccines apparently don't trigger antibody production in your sinuses.] Similarly, it might be beneficial if we could train this initial immune response better. I am not sure how it works. I know that despite extreme and very prolonged exposure to a very sick Covid-19 victim, I was unable to test positive for Covid and didn't have antibodies.

Amezarak 5y ago

I have been skeptical that antibodies are a good proxy for vaccine effectiveness. Your immune system "remembers" how to create antibodies, and there's no clear reason why it would continue to produce them after an infection has been eradicated. So I would expect antibody levels to always drop off naturally over time until your next exposure (or vaccine) with little or no impact on actual effectiveness, regardless of the virus or vaccine. I mean, I suppose that also suggests that "high antibody loads" indicate your immune system is an a high-alert state against coronavirus, actively fighting the virus (or what it thinks is the virus, the vaccine) and a "low" load a less alert state, so perhaps the rapid immune response in a "high alert" state is better...but surely there is some reason our immune system doesn't remain in a high-alert state indefinitely? [Edit - plus, of course, antibodies are far from the only immune response, they're just the easiest to measure, something that also makes me very leery of their use as a metric.]

zpeti 5y ago
I think you are right, and I think health officials and politicians basically want society’s immune system to be on high alert for a long time. I have no idea scientifically how good an idea that is. Second shots have a higher risk of myocardiatis, what about third, fourth, fifth? At what point can you let go and rely on T cell immunity?
acdha 5y ago
This is the reason for the split between getting sick and having a severe case. In pandemic conditions, having antibodies present is desirable means you’re less likely to spread it to someone else because the virus doesn’t have time to replicate much before your immune system fights it off.
- Amezarak 5y ago
  How much are antibodies present in your sinuses versus your bloodstream or various organs? My layman education here would suggest that antibodies are not really a big factor with the initial infection and spread, only when someone develops a serious infection and is sick enough they probably aren't walking around willy-nilly in public anyway. So that would explain why the vaccine protects against serious illness, but is less helpful in preventing infection and spread. [EDIT: A quick google suggests that, fascinatingly, the mucosal system in your sinuses apparently has its own independent antibody development and production. The vaccines apparently don't trigger antibody production in your sinuses.] Similarly, it might be beneficial if we could train this initial immune response better. I am not sure how it works. I know that despite extreme and very prolonged exposure to a very sick Covid-19 victim, I was unable to test positive for Covid and didn't have antibodies.