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This no limit to maximal lifespan has always stuck me as this is in total contradiction with the evolution theory as defined by Darwin https://en.m.wikipedia.o

This no limit to maximal lifespan has always stuck me as this is in total contradiction with the evolution theory as defined by Darwin https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinism#:~:text=Darwinism%20is%20a%20theory%20of,compete%2C%20survive%2C%20and%20reproduce https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwinism#:~:text=Darwinism%....

czzr 5y ago
How is it in total contradiction?
- flashfaffe2 5y ago
  Basically , if you ( the species ) live forever then how would expect the natural selection occurs? This underpins That you have reach the pinnacle and no can adapt in any kind of environment
  - ben_w 5y ago
    “Not getting old” does not mean “not having offspring”, competition of slightly mutated offspring is what evolution is driven by. And the expectation is that no ageing and no disease will give us a 50% chance of surviving any given (IIRC) 1000-ish year period, because accidents will still happen. In nature, you still have predators and lots of diseases that limit lifespan even of those species which have biological immortality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_immortality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_immortality
- dumbfoundded 5y ago
  Death is necessary for evolution. Shorter lifespans mean more rounds of genetic mutation meaning evolution can happen faster. I think overall the point is right but I'd a lot of nuance. - The evolutionary ideal lifespan for any creature is certainly limited but asking about the potential is more of a biochemical question and somewhat orthogonal to evolution. - Some creatures fill extremely long lived niches proving that at the level of cellular dynamics, longevity is certainly possible. - Humans no longer really depend on evolution. We'll start genetically modifying ourselves soon and I'd be surprised if there weren't any gm people walking around already. - Our biggest limiting factor is experimentation. These experiments take a long time and aren't ethical to perform on humans. We'll certainly figure out how to make immortal rats before people.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    Evolution only evolves to evolve faster where that is itself an evolutionary advantage; likewise slower only when it’s an advantage. (Where there is no advantage either way you can get drift; also fitness is at a much higher level than a particular gene). This is why we don’t have the 30-minute reproductive period of some bacteria.

czzr 5y ago

How is it in total contradiction?

flashfaffe2 5y ago
Basically , if you ( the species ) live forever then how would expect the natural selection occurs? This underpins That you have reach the pinnacle and no can adapt in any kind of environment
- ben_w 5y ago
  “Not getting old” does not mean “not having offspring”, competition of slightly mutated offspring is what evolution is driven by. And the expectation is that no ageing and no disease will give us a 50% chance of surviving any given (IIRC) 1000-ish year period, because accidents will still happen. In nature, you still have predators and lots of diseases that limit lifespan even of those species which have biological immortality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_immortality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_immortality
dumbfoundded 5y ago
Death is necessary for evolution. Shorter lifespans mean more rounds of genetic mutation meaning evolution can happen faster. I think overall the point is right but I'd a lot of nuance. - The evolutionary ideal lifespan for any creature is certainly limited but asking about the potential is more of a biochemical question and somewhat orthogonal to evolution. - Some creatures fill extremely long lived niches proving that at the level of cellular dynamics, longevity is certainly possible. - Humans no longer really depend on evolution. We'll start genetically modifying ourselves soon and I'd be surprised if there weren't any gm people walking around already. - Our biggest limiting factor is experimentation. These experiments take a long time and aren't ethical to perform on humans. We'll certainly figure out how to make immortal rats before people.
- ben_w 5y ago
  Evolution only evolves to evolve faster where that is itself an evolutionary advantage; likewise slower only when it’s an advantage. (Where there is no advantage either way you can get drift; also fitness is at a much higher level than a particular gene). This is why we don’t have the 30-minute reproductive period of some bacteria.