9 ms·

Kobayashi’s Maid Dragon Translation Notes

144 points by picture 5y ago

Lammy 5y ago
Kobayashi is also canonically a Python programmer, so this doubly fits on HN :) https://i.imgur.com/oxjqM1A.png https://i.imgur.com/oxjqM1A.png
- arrakeen 5y ago
  i could've sworn i saw kobayashi using a kana keyboard in one episode and thought that would be difficult to program with. does anyone here know if kana keyboards just have hiragana overlaid over the qwerty layout?
  - Lammy 5y ago
    QWERTY JIS layouts are common, yeah. Just hit the 英数 key! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/MacBookProJISKeyboard-1.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/MacBookP...
- Hamuko 5y ago
  https://github.com/webpy/webpy/blob/16533d3a52065e5ed156219af3858919118c1f5f/web/session.py#L127-L154 https://github.com/webpy/webpy/blob/16533d3a52065e5ed156219a...
  - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
    Damn kids, get off my issue tracker! https://github.com/webpy/webpy/issues/420 https://github.com/webpy/webpy/issues/420
    - NoGravitas 5y ago
      420, nice.
  - onurtag 5y ago
    I recognize that code.
- trinovantes 5y ago
  I like how the function names are in English but comments are in Japanese Don't most modern compilers allow utf-8 characters in symbol names?
  - YouMeWeThem 5y ago
    I'm a programmer in Japan. This is completely normal. It looks ridiculous to have English syntax mixed in with Japanese variables, not great for legibility.
  - Lammy 5y ago
    Supported as of Python 2.3; default as of 3.0: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0263/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0263/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3120/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3120/ Also default in Ruby as of 2.0: https://ruby-doc.org/core/Encoding.html#class-Encoding-label-Script+encoding https://ruby-doc.org/core/Encoding.html#class-Encoding-label...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - makeitdouble 5y ago
    UTF-8 is allowed, but it's a trap. Nowadays it's less of an issue, but back in the days windows, mac and linux all used different default encodings. This meant that opening and saving the source file in one of the system could mess it all depending on the editor and how careful the devs are. Also, there is the canonical writing issue, where you can write different utf-8 strings that all end up displayed the same. It's not an issue if it's just display text, it's a different story if you have a method that doesn't get called because the byte sequence was different, or more subtly hash indexes that seem to match but actually don't. BTW there are companies that write some of the UT methods right in Japanese, as it matters less, and it's quite fun as there is less restrictions on what can be put in the identifier (full-width parenthesis, spaces, comma etc, are allowed in that context)
  - 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
    I am not from Japan, but do work in two languages other than English (both official here). This is pretty typical actually. English names for identifiers (sometimes badly translated or simply transliterated), local languages for comments.
- Bendy 5y ago
  I discovered the cPickle module thanks to this show.
- jcun4128 5y ago
  I always like pausing code stuff I see in shows to see if it's legit or random garbage. For example recently in the Netflix Cowboy Bebop they had this bootloader that appeared to be a mix of JavaScript, PHP and Python. Also great show (KMD) last season's OP was great.
- smukherjee19 5y ago
  Nice! In case anyone is wondering what those Japanese comments say: # Check if the IP address has changed """ Generate a random session ID """ Seems accurate. :)
blondin 5y ago
just curious. is this anime anything like "dropkick on my devil"?
- sodra9000 5y ago
  It has a similar concept, but Dragon Maid is generally more well regarded, with a remarkable studio behind it, and has more heartwarming moments. If you like Dropkick, you'll probably love Dragon Maid.
  - blondin 5y ago
    thank you! will check it out.
    - nosianu 5y ago
      And while you are at it put "The Devil Is a Part-Timer!" on your list. I'm not into that kind of stuff in general but oh my god this was soooo good.
      - jcun4128 5y ago
        Recently Jahy sama similar show pretext/setting
- Hamuko 5y ago
  Not really.
- Karawebnetwork 5y ago
  Similar, but to me Kobayashi's is way more polished and relies less on common tropes.
tkgally 5y ago
Wow. This is really good. Manga/anime fans who want to improve their Japanese can learn a lot from this. I worked as a Japanese-to-English translator for twenty years (until 2005) and wrote and translated some Japanese-language textbooks, but I was never into otaku stuff and never would have thought of producing something like this. Hats off to the author.
kobayashi 5y ago
Different Kobayashi.
clavicat 5y ago
The writer demonstrates some talent, but I’ve always wondered what it is that possesses these translators to devote their energies to translating sapphic boob anime instead of the untranslated works of Japan’s literary greats. The latter might earn you some distinction and even a small place in history. The former is just wasted effort, especially given that there is no shortage of fan translators willing to do it in your place.
- devwastaken 5y ago
  Anime translators do receive distinction and a place in history. Why translate something few will read when you can translate something many will read and enjoy together. Most great literary work cannot be properly translated because of unique cultural traits that do not exist elsewhere. Even translating anime is not 1:1, you can see the number of things that had to be changed in the FL:CL dub to tell the story similarly.
- Lammy 5y ago
  I dunno, personally I enjoy the representation. It's a pretty important LGBT anime even if it's mostly allegorical. I'm sure there are many many amazing untranslated works, but I imagine there's an even larger audience who can relate to a story about defining your own path through life despite family who refuse to accept that autonomy. (No spoilers!) Also don't forget Fafnir x Takiya ;)
  - astrange 5y ago
    Well, the anime is “good” representation because it’s a rewrite. The original material made them lesbians as a fetish and nothing else.
- bitofhope 5y ago
  Pop culture properties like seasonal anime are more popular than great works of high literature, especially ones so obscure they haven't been translated before. Translating an episode is also likely to be less work than a full novel or probably even short story. I presume a typical sapphic boob anime is also easier to translate. Literary greats tend to use more complex language or at the very least, very meticulously crafted language. That is, after all, what usually makes a work of literature a "great". From TFA you can see how much nuance and careful consideration can even go into the translation of a simple piece of pop media. The level of literacy (in multiple languages!) it takes to do justice to a more high-brow work is usually much higher. I have to concede that you calling Maidragon a "sapphic boob anime", while a little dismissive, is accurate and amused me.
Jach 5y ago
Season 2 should really be part of the title, I thought these might have just been the old season 1 notes which I liked when I stumbled on them years ago. But I'm glad I clicked through, the little details the author goes through are always interesting.
smukherjee19 5y ago
As someone who understands Japanese, the blog is a treasure trove of things in Japanese that well, don't carry over as nicely, hence those TL notes. So many "Yeahhh I know that feel" moments there! Especially amaeru, which I struggle to carry the meaning across in English as well...! I highly recommend reading it even if you don't watch anime; it's a treasure trove of daily Japanese life references that don't usually turn up on mainstream media. It's also due to Kobayashi's Maid Dragon being set in modern day Japan with several slice-of-life elements, and Kyoto Animation tends to do an extremely good job of portraying those small moments of happiness. Thanks for sharing this, didn't know it existed. :) (R.I.P Mr. Takemoto, Director of Season 1. We lost so many great minds...)
- picture 5y ago
  I stumbled across this while looking for cute pictures of Kanna. Turns out google images can lead to some pretty great stuff sometimes!
izzydata 5y ago
Rest In Peace to Kyoto Animation victims.
PaulHoule 5y ago
Ouch... For those who think anime is a disease that is responsible for the low birthrate and Hikkikomori phenomenon, Dragon Maid represents a step change in the wrong direction. There are many light critiques you can make of it such as the "conflict" being resolved in the last episode in a way that makes a "deus ex machina" seem like brilliant plotting, or that the female having a harem of other females is not a sign of female or gay liberation but rather an excuse to draw more images of girls. The serious problem is that Dragon Maid engages in numerous forms of "coded" images that derive from "lolicon" (pedophilic) fan art. Until then none of these codes had appeared in a real anime that was on TV but Dragon Maid normalized them. The main theme revolves around a dragon who is "sexually attracted" (the dragon says that) to the main character (an adult) which is mirrored in a relationship between another dragon with a child-like appearance and an actual child which uses the same visual coding to communicate the feelings of the characters (and are also widespread in the fanart porn that gets distributed at that upside-down pyramid near Tokyo, often used to communicate that a character who is doing something that doesn't look very pleasant, fun, or consensual is really having a good time.) Given that I find it hard to believe that this event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Animation_arson_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Animation_arson_attack wasn't a "political" response by someone who wanted to stamp out what they perceived as perversion.
- Throwawayaerlei 5y ago
  The birthrate started crashing long before Japanese animation became "anime," let alone the sort you're worrying about: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/JPN/japan/birth-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/JPN/japan/birth-rate (although Go Nagai isn't exactly a model of rectitude). As for the history of anime and what you're worried about Dragon Maid normalizing, let me just point out as an extreme example that Kodomo no Jikan was aired in 2007 a full decade before Dragon Maid. And I find it curious that you don't seriously consider the arsonist's claim it was for revenge from his perception that the studio had ripped off material in a novel he submitted to them in the light novel competitions they'd started running (no good deed goes unpunished).
favorited 5y ago
In a surprise to no one, the comment criticizing Dragon Maid's pedophilic dog whistles gets [flagged]
- Analemma_ 5y ago
  Because it’s totally irrelevant to the article under discussion and only serves to let the moral-crusading author feel good about themselves.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
meemoomeemaw 5y ago
These are great notes. I particularly enjoyed the notes about massages. My grandparents frequently asked me to pound their shoulders, and I even made massage tickets (though I was in my twenties when I made those, so wasn't as cute haha...)

144 points by picture 5y ago

Kobayashi is also canonically a Python programmer, so this doubly fits on HN :) https://i.imgur.com/oxjqM1A.png https://i.imgur.com/oxjqM1A.png

arrakeen 5y ago
i could've sworn i saw kobayashi using a kana keyboard in one episode and thought that would be difficult to program with. does anyone here know if kana keyboards just have hiragana overlaid over the qwerty layout?
- Lammy 5y ago
  QWERTY JIS layouts are common, yeah. Just hit the 英数 key! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/MacBookProJISKeyboard-1.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/MacBookP...
Hamuko 5y ago
https://github.com/webpy/webpy/blob/16533d3a52065e5ed156219af3858919118c1f5f/web/session.py#L127-L154 https://github.com/webpy/webpy/blob/16533d3a52065e5ed156219a...
- 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
  Damn kids, get off my issue tracker! https://github.com/webpy/webpy/issues/420 https://github.com/webpy/webpy/issues/420
  - NoGravitas 5y ago
    420, nice.
- onurtag 5y ago
  I recognize that code.
trinovantes 5y ago
I like how the function names are in English but comments are in Japanese Don't most modern compilers allow utf-8 characters in symbol names?
- YouMeWeThem 5y ago
  I'm a programmer in Japan. This is completely normal. It looks ridiculous to have English syntax mixed in with Japanese variables, not great for legibility.
- Lammy 5y ago
  Supported as of Python 2.3; default as of 3.0: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0263/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0263/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3120/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3120/ Also default in Ruby as of 2.0: https://ruby-doc.org/core/Encoding.html#class-Encoding-label-Script+encoding https://ruby-doc.org/core/Encoding.html#class-Encoding-label...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- makeitdouble 5y ago
  UTF-8 is allowed, but it's a trap. Nowadays it's less of an issue, but back in the days windows, mac and linux all used different default encodings. This meant that opening and saving the source file in one of the system could mess it all depending on the editor and how careful the devs are. Also, there is the canonical writing issue, where you can write different utf-8 strings that all end up displayed the same. It's not an issue if it's just display text, it's a different story if you have a method that doesn't get called because the byte sequence was different, or more subtly hash indexes that seem to match but actually don't. BTW there are companies that write some of the UT methods right in Japanese, as it matters less, and it's quite fun as there is less restrictions on what can be put in the identifier (full-width parenthesis, spaces, comma etc, are allowed in that context)
- 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
  I am not from Japan, but do work in two languages other than English (both official here). This is pretty typical actually. English names for identifiers (sometimes badly translated or simply transliterated), local languages for comments.
Bendy 5y ago
I discovered the cPickle module thanks to this show.
jcun4128 5y ago
I always like pausing code stuff I see in shows to see if it's legit or random garbage. For example recently in the Netflix Cowboy Bebop they had this bootloader that appeared to be a mix of JavaScript, PHP and Python. Also great show (KMD) last season's OP was great.
smukherjee19 5y ago
Nice! In case anyone is wondering what those Japanese comments say: # Check if the IP address has changed """ Generate a random session ID """ Seems accurate. :)

blondin 5y ago

just curious. is this anime anything like "dropkick on my devil"?

sodra9000 5y ago
It has a similar concept, but Dragon Maid is generally more well regarded, with a remarkable studio behind it, and has more heartwarming moments. If you like Dropkick, you'll probably love Dragon Maid.
- blondin 5y ago
  thank you! will check it out.
  - nosianu 5y ago
    And while you are at it put "The Devil Is a Part-Timer!" on your list. I'm not into that kind of stuff in general but oh my god this was soooo good.
    - jcun4128 5y ago
      Recently Jahy sama similar show pretext/setting
Hamuko 5y ago
Not really.
Karawebnetwork 5y ago
Similar, but to me Kobayashi's is way more polished and relies less on common tropes.

tkgally 5y ago

Wow. This is really good. Manga/anime fans who want to improve their Japanese can learn a lot from this. I worked as a Japanese-to-English translator for twenty years (until 2005) and wrote and translated some Japanese-language textbooks, but I was never into otaku stuff and never would have thought of producing something like this. Hats off to the author.

kobayashi 5y ago

Different Kobayashi.

clavicat 5y ago

The writer demonstrates some talent, but I’ve always wondered what it is that possesses these translators to devote their energies to translating sapphic boob anime instead of the untranslated works of Japan’s literary greats. The latter might earn you some distinction and even a small place in history. The former is just wasted effort, especially given that there is no shortage of fan translators willing to do it in your place.

devwastaken 5y ago
Anime translators do receive distinction and a place in history. Why translate something few will read when you can translate something many will read and enjoy together. Most great literary work cannot be properly translated because of unique cultural traits that do not exist elsewhere. Even translating anime is not 1:1, you can see the number of things that had to be changed in the FL:CL dub to tell the story similarly.
Lammy 5y ago
I dunno, personally I enjoy the representation. It's a pretty important LGBT anime even if it's mostly allegorical. I'm sure there are many many amazing untranslated works, but I imagine there's an even larger audience who can relate to a story about defining your own path through life despite family who refuse to accept that autonomy. (No spoilers!) Also don't forget Fafnir x Takiya ;)
- astrange 5y ago
  Well, the anime is “good” representation because it’s a rewrite. The original material made them lesbians as a fetish and nothing else.
bitofhope 5y ago
Pop culture properties like seasonal anime are more popular than great works of high literature, especially ones so obscure they haven't been translated before. Translating an episode is also likely to be less work than a full novel or probably even short story. I presume a typical sapphic boob anime is also easier to translate. Literary greats tend to use more complex language or at the very least, very meticulously crafted language. That is, after all, what usually makes a work of literature a "great". From TFA you can see how much nuance and careful consideration can even go into the translation of a simple piece of pop media. The level of literacy (in multiple languages!) it takes to do justice to a more high-brow work is usually much higher. I have to concede that you calling Maidragon a "sapphic boob anime", while a little dismissive, is accurate and amused me.

Jach 5y ago

Season 2 should really be part of the title, I thought these might have just been the old season 1 notes which I liked when I stumbled on them years ago. But I'm glad I clicked through, the little details the author goes through are always interesting.

smukherjee19 5y ago

As someone who understands Japanese, the blog is a treasure trove of things in Japanese that well, don't carry over as nicely, hence those TL notes. So many "Yeahhh I know that feel" moments there! Especially amaeru, which I struggle to carry the meaning across in English as well...! I highly recommend reading it even if you don't watch anime; it's a treasure trove of daily Japanese life references that don't usually turn up on mainstream media. It's also due to Kobayashi's Maid Dragon being set in modern day Japan with several slice-of-life elements, and Kyoto Animation tends to do an extremely good job of portraying those small moments of happiness. Thanks for sharing this, didn't know it existed. :) (R.I.P Mr. Takemoto, Director of Season 1. We lost so many great minds...)

picture 5y ago
I stumbled across this while looking for cute pictures of Kanna. Turns out google images can lead to some pretty great stuff sometimes!

izzydata 5y ago

Rest In Peace to Kyoto Animation victims.

PaulHoule 5y ago

Ouch... For those who think anime is a disease that is responsible for the low birthrate and Hikkikomori phenomenon, Dragon Maid represents a step change in the wrong direction. There are many light critiques you can make of it such as the "conflict" being resolved in the last episode in a way that makes a "deus ex machina" seem like brilliant plotting, or that the female having a harem of other females is not a sign of female or gay liberation but rather an excuse to draw more images of girls. The serious problem is that Dragon Maid engages in numerous forms of "coded" images that derive from "lolicon" (pedophilic) fan art. Until then none of these codes had appeared in a real anime that was on TV but Dragon Maid normalized them. The main theme revolves around a dragon who is "sexually attracted" (the dragon says that) to the main character (an adult) which is mirrored in a relationship between another dragon with a child-like appearance and an actual child which uses the same visual coding to communicate the feelings of the characters (and are also widespread in the fanart porn that gets distributed at that upside-down pyramid near Tokyo, often used to communicate that a character who is doing something that doesn't look very pleasant, fun, or consensual is really having a good time.) Given that I find it hard to believe that this event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Animation_arson_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Animation_arson_attack wasn't a "political" response by someone who wanted to stamp out what they perceived as perversion.

Throwawayaerlei 5y ago
The birthrate started crashing long before Japanese animation became "anime," let alone the sort you're worrying about: https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/JPN/japan/birth-rate https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/JPN/japan/birth-rate (although Go Nagai isn't exactly a model of rectitude). As for the history of anime and what you're worried about Dragon Maid normalizing, let me just point out as an extreme example that Kodomo no Jikan was aired in 2007 a full decade before Dragon Maid. And I find it curious that you don't seriously consider the arsonist's claim it was for revenge from his perception that the studio had ripped off material in a novel he submitted to them in the light novel competitions they'd started running (no good deed goes unpunished).

favorited 5y ago

In a surprise to no one, the comment criticizing Dragon Maid's pedophilic dog whistles gets [flagged]

Analemma_ 5y ago
Because it’s totally irrelevant to the article under discussion and only serves to let the moral-crusading author feel good about themselves.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

meemoomeemaw 5y ago

These are great notes. I particularly enjoyed the notes about massages. My grandparents frequently asked me to pound their shoulders, and I even made massage tickets (though I was in my twenties when I made those, so wasn't as cute haha...)