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> are they dying WITH covid or FROM covid Sorry, that's ridiculous. If a person would not be dead if they hadn't contracted COVID, even if they had other healt

by a5aAqU 5y ago

> are they dying WITH covid or FROM covid Sorry, that's ridiculous. If a person would not be dead if they hadn't contracted COVID, even if they had other health conditions, then masks and vaccines are a factor in preventing those deaths, and COVID is the cause. If you throw a rock off of an overpass and it hits a car, and that car swerves uncontrollably and kills a pedestrian, then your throwing the rock was the fundamental cause of the death, not the driver of the car or the car itself. If anything, the COVID deaths are underreported.[1] The virus will eventually be under control, just like most other viruses in the past. We will have better treatments within a year or two. Paxlovid is one example, but there will be more. There might be only a handful of deaths once that happens. For the sake of the vulnerable people out there, we all have to practice basic virus safety until then. [1] https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/05/covid-19-may-have-killed-20-more-reported-us https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/05/covid-19...

syshum 5y ago
>> There might be only a handful of deaths once that happens No that is what is ridiculous, the idea we will get down to only a handful. At best it is going to have numbers at the same level as the seasonal flu. At best, most likely the mean annual average it going to trend slightly higher than the flu >>Sorry, that's ridiculous It is not >>If anything, the COVID deaths are underreported.[1] Well you might want to read the study closer, they are largely complaining about "indirect deaths" from covid. I quote "Indirect effects may include increases in mortality resulting from reductions in access to and use of healthcare services and psychosocial consequences of stay-at-home orders," " I would not classify these as COVID Deaths, but rather deaths due to people panicking and creating ridiculous rules around COVID, something you are advocating increase use of in this thread, which will simply lead to MORE indirect death A classic case of the treatment being worse than the illness. To be clear, if you want to wear a mask more power to you, if you want to ask others to voluntarily do it more power to you, if you want to ask business you transact with to require it of all customer as is their right as property owners more power to you, but you cross the ethical line for me when you adventure into wanting the government to mandate you will onto others backed by the full force and violence of that government. I dont care if that mandate is in the form of mask, vaccines, stay at home order, or anything else, I oppose all government enforced mandates related to COVID 19
- a5aAqU 5y ago
  It's going to be impossible to calculate COVID deaths, but even in my own family death has occurred during COVID infection that wasn't officially counted as COVID death. The conversation isn't about government mandates -- it's about whether people should wear a mask and practice basic virus safety even after they are vaccinated. In any case, you already follow government enforced mandates that help protect us all: wearing seatbelts, not wearing earphones in the car, getting vaccinations to go to school[1] or enter countries, and much more. Wearing masks doesn't lead to more indirect deaths. Not wearing masks prolongs the pandemic and leads to more direct and indirect deaths as well as prolonging the economic devastation that many are dealing with. In times of severe catastrophe, we all have to work together to keep everyone safe. People who don't wear masks increase the risk of death for vulnerable people and prolong the pandemic. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/08/states-have-mandated-vaccinations-since-long-before-covid-19/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/08/states-have...
  - syshum 5y ago
    >>Wearing masks doesn't lead to more indirect deaths. Wrong, I know many people right now that are putting off seeing the doctor because of masking policies at many medical facilities. >The conversation isn't about government mandates Sure it is, as you prove in your next statement >>e, you already follow government enforced mandates that help protect us all: wearing seatbelts, not wearing earphones in the car, getting vaccinations to go to school[1] or enter countries, and much more. and I oppose all of those as well, just because we already have draconian authoritarianism does not justify more authoritarianism
    - a5aAqU 5y ago
      > I know many people right now that are putting off seeing the doctor because of masking policies at many medical facilities. Because they have to wear a mask at the medical facilities? If that's what you're saying, those people are extremely foolish and are choosing their own Darwin awards. > I oppose all of those as well I don't think there is anywhere else for this conversation to go, so let's end it. :)

by a5aAqU 5y ago

syshum 5y ago

>> There might be only a handful of deaths once that happens No that is what is ridiculous, the idea we will get down to only a handful. At best it is going to have numbers at the same level as the seasonal flu. At best, most likely the mean annual average it going to trend slightly higher than the flu >>Sorry, that's ridiculous It is not >>If anything, the COVID deaths are underreported.[1] Well you might want to read the study closer, they are largely complaining about "indirect deaths" from covid. I quote "Indirect effects may include increases in mortality resulting from reductions in access to and use of healthcare services and psychosocial consequences of stay-at-home orders," " I would not classify these as COVID Deaths, but rather deaths due to people panicking and creating ridiculous rules around COVID, something you are advocating increase use of in this thread, which will simply lead to MORE indirect death A classic case of the treatment being worse than the illness. To be clear, if you want to wear a mask more power to you, if you want to ask others to voluntarily do it more power to you, if you want to ask business you transact with to require it of all customer as is their right as property owners more power to you, but you cross the ethical line for me when you adventure into wanting the government to mandate you will onto others backed by the full force and violence of that government. I dont care if that mandate is in the form of mask, vaccines, stay at home order, or anything else, I oppose all government enforced mandates related to COVID 19

a5aAqU 5y ago
It's going to be impossible to calculate COVID deaths, but even in my own family death has occurred during COVID infection that wasn't officially counted as COVID death. The conversation isn't about government mandates -- it's about whether people should wear a mask and practice basic virus safety even after they are vaccinated. In any case, you already follow government enforced mandates that help protect us all: wearing seatbelts, not wearing earphones in the car, getting vaccinations to go to school[1] or enter countries, and much more. Wearing masks doesn't lead to more indirect deaths. Not wearing masks prolongs the pandemic and leads to more direct and indirect deaths as well as prolonging the economic devastation that many are dealing with. In times of severe catastrophe, we all have to work together to keep everyone safe. People who don't wear masks increase the risk of death for vulnerable people and prolong the pandemic. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/08/states-have-mandated-vaccinations-since-long-before-covid-19/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/10/08/states-have...
- syshum 5y ago
  >>Wearing masks doesn't lead to more indirect deaths. Wrong, I know many people right now that are putting off seeing the doctor because of masking policies at many medical facilities. >The conversation isn't about government mandates Sure it is, as you prove in your next statement >>e, you already follow government enforced mandates that help protect us all: wearing seatbelts, not wearing earphones in the car, getting vaccinations to go to school[1] or enter countries, and much more. and I oppose all of those as well, just because we already have draconian authoritarianism does not justify more authoritarianism
  - a5aAqU 5y ago
    > I know many people right now that are putting off seeing the doctor because of masking policies at many medical facilities. Because they have to wear a mask at the medical facilities? If that's what you're saying, those people are extremely foolish and are choosing their own Darwin awards. > I oppose all of those as well I don't think there is anywhere else for this conversation to go, so let's end it. :)