4 ms·

> Part of the benefit of vaccination is that it prevents spread and so vaccinating young and healthy people helps insulate unwell, old and immunocompromised fol

> Part of the benefit of vaccination is that it prevents spread and so vaccinating young and healthy people helps insulate unwell, old and immunocompromised folks. Does the evidence really support this though? Kids are generally not hanging out around older people or groups of at risk individuals. Most infections (~99%) that result in mortality happen in hospitals, long term care facilities, and prisons. Further, this doesn't align with my understanding of how the vaccine "slows the spread". Spreading covid is like a game of catch. Someone has to throw the ball, and someone else has to catch it. For ex. we know masks are a mechanism that reduces your ability to "throw the ball". And we know the vaccine reduces your ability to "catch the ball", but once you've caught it you will spread the disease just like anyone else. Therefore, slowing the spread means that everyone gets exposed to covid a little bit at a time, not all at once. Good for managing hospital capacity. But everyone gets exposed nonetheless. So as far as targeting demographics goes, I'm not aware of any evidence that increased vaccination among young people corresponds to a reduced likelihood of the elderly getting exposed to the disease, though I'd love to see said evidence to the contrary.

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
> Kids are generally not hanging out around older people or groups of at risk individuals. Do children live in feral gangs where you are, or are they co-habiting with adult carers or guardians? You know, parents. Teachers. That kind of thing. The schoolchild-to-parent transmission path is very well established, in fact you can see it in the whole population data, e.g. > The steep jump in Covid-19 infections among children has been followed by an uptick in cases affecting people aged 30 to 49 — their parents’ generation https://www.ft.com/content/1b884913-30cb-4b3e-9a2c-643287188387 https://www.ft.com/content/1b884913-30cb-4b3e-9a2c-643287188... So the idea that child to adult transmission has no plausible mechanism is wrong - it's called parents; and the idea that it's not actually happening now is wrong - look at the data.
- disambiguation 5y ago
  Hello Sideburns! I can't access your link it's pay-walled nor can I find a decent version on archive, but I'll take your word for it. 1. I should have clarified. By "old, unwell, infirm" I mean people over 50 Because of covids age skew in mortality and hospitalization, I'm not really worried about people under 50, nor is GP. The premise the GP is arguing is that "vaccinating young people is primarily good because it helps protect old people". 2. I'm not saying covid doesn't jump from young to old, I'm asking 2 questions: a. is "unvaccinated young-to-old transmission" a major vector for infection among >50s. b. by extension, does vaccinating young people correlate to a decrease in infections among >50s. I suspect it doesn't for the reasons I described in my prior comment, but of course I would like to see data that supports it one way or the other. If no one has done such an analysis yet, it begs the question why we're perpetuating such talking points and making policies without having the data first.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    > 1. I should have clarified. By "old, unwell, infirm" I mean people over 50 Nice of you to move the goalposts after the fact, but are over 50s completely isolated from schoolchildren, or are they merely 2 hops away? Are you saying that no-one over the age of 50 is a parent, carer or teacher for school age children? The progress of outbreaks since mass vaccination began has had a general observable trend: it first flares up in the youngest age groups, and then sooner or later spreads to all age groups.
    - disambiguation 5y ago
      You're just a cheery person huh. I didn't move the goalposts, I corrected your strawman. You said 30-49 and completely ignored anyone else. Nice of you to hold yourself accountable, but feel free to project more. Again the questions is.. Does vaccinating young people correlate to a decrease in cases among >50s. Since we agree that vaccinating young people is mainly about protecting everyone else, I'd like to see data that proves it actually helps.

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago

> Kids are generally not hanging out around older people or groups of at risk individuals. Do children live in feral gangs where you are, or are they co-habiting with adult carers or guardians? You know, parents. Teachers. That kind of thing. The schoolchild-to-parent transmission path is very well established, in fact you can see it in the whole population data, e.g. > The steep jump in Covid-19 infections among children has been followed by an uptick in cases affecting people aged 30 to 49 — their parents’ generation https://www.ft.com/content/1b884913-30cb-4b3e-9a2c-643287188387 https://www.ft.com/content/1b884913-30cb-4b3e-9a2c-643287188... So the idea that child to adult transmission has no plausible mechanism is wrong - it's called parents; and the idea that it's not actually happening now is wrong - look at the data.

disambiguation 5y ago
Hello Sideburns! I can't access your link it's pay-walled nor can I find a decent version on archive, but I'll take your word for it. 1. I should have clarified. By "old, unwell, infirm" I mean people over 50 Because of covids age skew in mortality and hospitalization, I'm not really worried about people under 50, nor is GP. The premise the GP is arguing is that "vaccinating young people is primarily good because it helps protect old people". 2. I'm not saying covid doesn't jump from young to old, I'm asking 2 questions: a. is "unvaccinated young-to-old transmission" a major vector for infection among >50s. b. by extension, does vaccinating young people correlate to a decrease in infections among >50s. I suspect it doesn't for the reasons I described in my prior comment, but of course I would like to see data that supports it one way or the other. If no one has done such an analysis yet, it begs the question why we're perpetuating such talking points and making policies without having the data first.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  > 1. I should have clarified. By "old, unwell, infirm" I mean people over 50 Nice of you to move the goalposts after the fact, but are over 50s completely isolated from schoolchildren, or are they merely 2 hops away? Are you saying that no-one over the age of 50 is a parent, carer or teacher for school age children? The progress of outbreaks since mass vaccination began has had a general observable trend: it first flares up in the youngest age groups, and then sooner or later spreads to all age groups.
  - disambiguation 5y ago
    You're just a cheery person huh. I didn't move the goalposts, I corrected your strawman. You said 30-49 and completely ignored anyone else. Nice of you to hold yourself accountable, but feel free to project more. Again the questions is.. Does vaccinating young people correlate to a decrease in cases among >50s. Since we agree that vaccinating young people is mainly about protecting everyone else, I'd like to see data that proves it actually helps.