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Targeted advertising is by definition about you. Aggregated information that reports on targeted ads is about you and others like you. Personally, I'm willing

Targeted advertising is by definition about you. Aggregated information that reports on targeted ads is about you and others like you. Personally, I'm willing to pay for a Browser that does not also need an ad network to support it. To quote Brave "The goal is to show you privacy respecting ads that are relevant to the user in the right context. This is done by "matching" an ad that is (ideally) catered to you based on your browsing activity". https://support.brave.com/hc/en-us/articles/360055013431-Why-don-t-I-see-any-Brave-Ads-after-enabling-them- https://support.brave.com/hc/en-us/articles/360055013431-Why... It is clearly about you.

rglullis 5y ago
> Personally, I'm willing to pay for a Browser that does not also need an ad network to support it. Ok, now go with the other 28 people that think the same and see if you can hire one developer. Or let's start much lower in the stack: let me know of ONE web service that is based on open standards and that you are paying right now.
- annoyingnoob 5y ago
  I'm not sure what you are getting at, an implementation of a standard is not the standard itself. I buy lots of software that implements various open standards.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    Ok. I asked about services, not software one can buy, but anyway... how much did you pay for your email client? Group Chat messenger? VoIP soft-phone?
- annoyingnoob 5y ago
  Because Brave is a service? And services are implemented with standards and not software? I'm still not sure what you are getting at. Yes, there is free software, and there is paid software, and both free and paid software implements standards. And yes, I pay for an email server and I pay for an email client, for example - because I find value in paid options that I do not find in free options.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    > because I find value in paid options that I do not find in free options. Yeah, and my point is that people don't pay for software unless it gives them something (aka "value") that is not available in the free alternatives. > I'm still not sure what you are getting at. In one sentence: There is no sustainable business that can rely only on the people interested in paying for a browser solely for privacy reasons.
    - annoyingnoob 5y ago
      I said I would pay for it, never said anything about viability and not offering an opinion there. There are choices not built around extraneous ad networks. When Google places ads for its own products in better places than their customers that are paying for ad space we call that anti-competitive. When Brave blocks web ads and then offers their own ads instead you cheer it on, this is the same kind of anti-competitive practice. Not everything needs to be free in exchange for ads/tracking/marketing.
      - rglullis 5y ago
        Your last paragraph contradicts the first. If things can not be "free", then there needs to exist a viable business model for it. Yeah, we can have always something niche, but to have something of the mass scale like a web browser you need to have serious resources being allocated to it. > Google places ads (...) in better places than their customers (...) we call that anti-competitive. When Brave blocks web ads then offers their own ads (...) is the same kind. No, not at all. On Google's case, they are getting money from an advertiser and giving them a worse value. They also take a lot of money from them based on fraudulent impressions which are hard to contest. Brave has two separate actions: one, to block ads on the webpage. The other, to serve ad notifications from their own network. The first is an action that is done by the user, for their own benefit. They could be using Brave, or they could be someone using uBlock on Firefox, it doesn't matter. When Brave blocks an ad on a page, they block for the benefit of the user, not for their own. As a matter of fact, only recently I realized that Brave's default blocking behavior is not as aggressive as I'd like, they still don't block first-party ads. It's on the latter that Brave makes their money, and when they do their job well they are delivering more value to their customers (the advertisers) and for the end-users who opted-in and want to have a share of the revenue. The only ones losing value on this are those that insist on using ad networks with third-party scripts and cookies. To those I say good riddance.
rglullis 5y ago
The matching happens on-device. The targeting is done by the browser and it is the browser that decides what ads to show, based on the inventory that is downloaded periodically, by everyone. This is why there is the need to confirmation, so that Brave (and the publisher) can have a way to count how many ads were served and how much BAT is owed to each participant. At no moment it means that Brave or the publishers get any of your information. (Is there any more false misconception that you would like to have debunked, or are you just trying to earn the reputation for your username?)
- annoyingnoob 5y ago
  Right, the browser catalogs everything you do and sends it to Brave to share with their advertisers. I've got it.
  - rglullis 5y ago
    No, you didn't get it at all. There is no activity logging and there is no "sharing". No one can prove who is the owner of the device that got the ad confirmation. No one can point at you after seeing an ad. All that is known is that advertiser X needs to pay for the confirmation Y. You don't need to reveal anything about yourself to be able to prove you have the confirmation. That's the whole point of double-blinded (or zero-knowledge) signatures. Stop misrepresenting everything about how the system works, you are being incredibly dishonest.
    - annoyingnoob 5y ago
      Did you look at the links I provided in this thread? Maybe you missed this part as being 'out of scope' of their solution: "Brave collusion with CDN to track users based on IP" What happens when you click on a Brave ad and it takes you to an advertiser's landing page? That advertiser gets to learn all kinds of things about your browser. Brave's obfuscation only goes so far, and they know how to work-around their own solution. Trust them if you'd like but I don't. I don't need yet another chromium browser. Brave offers nothing that I cannot get elsewhere and includes an ad network. I think its Brave that is being dishonest, Brave cares about telling you a story and showing you ads, its marketing.

rglullis 5y ago

> Personally, I'm willing to pay for a Browser that does not also need an ad network to support it. Ok, now go with the other 28 people that think the same and see if you can hire one developer. Or let's start much lower in the stack: let me know of ONE web service that is based on open standards and that you are paying right now.

annoyingnoob 5y ago
I'm not sure what you are getting at, an implementation of a standard is not the standard itself. I buy lots of software that implements various open standards.
- rglullis 5y ago
  Ok. I asked about services, not software one can buy, but anyway... how much did you pay for your email client? Group Chat messenger? VoIP soft-phone?
annoyingnoob 5y ago
Because Brave is a service? And services are implemented with standards and not software? I'm still not sure what you are getting at. Yes, there is free software, and there is paid software, and both free and paid software implements standards. And yes, I pay for an email server and I pay for an email client, for example - because I find value in paid options that I do not find in free options.
- rglullis 5y ago
  > because I find value in paid options that I do not find in free options. Yeah, and my point is that people don't pay for software unless it gives them something (aka "value") that is not available in the free alternatives. > I'm still not sure what you are getting at. In one sentence: There is no sustainable business that can rely only on the people interested in paying for a browser solely for privacy reasons.
  - annoyingnoob 5y ago
    I said I would pay for it, never said anything about viability and not offering an opinion there. There are choices not built around extraneous ad networks. When Google places ads for its own products in better places than their customers that are paying for ad space we call that anti-competitive. When Brave blocks web ads and then offers their own ads instead you cheer it on, this is the same kind of anti-competitive practice. Not everything needs to be free in exchange for ads/tracking/marketing.
    - rglullis 5y ago
      Your last paragraph contradicts the first. If things can not be "free", then there needs to exist a viable business model for it. Yeah, we can have always something niche, but to have something of the mass scale like a web browser you need to have serious resources being allocated to it. > Google places ads (...) in better places than their customers (...) we call that anti-competitive. When Brave blocks web ads then offers their own ads (...) is the same kind. No, not at all. On Google's case, they are getting money from an advertiser and giving them a worse value. They also take a lot of money from them based on fraudulent impressions which are hard to contest. Brave has two separate actions: one, to block ads on the webpage. The other, to serve ad notifications from their own network. The first is an action that is done by the user, for their own benefit. They could be using Brave, or they could be someone using uBlock on Firefox, it doesn't matter. When Brave blocks an ad on a page, they block for the benefit of the user, not for their own. As a matter of fact, only recently I realized that Brave's default blocking behavior is not as aggressive as I'd like, they still don't block first-party ads. It's on the latter that Brave makes their money, and when they do their job well they are delivering more value to their customers (the advertisers) and for the end-users who opted-in and want to have a share of the revenue. The only ones losing value on this are those that insist on using ad networks with third-party scripts and cookies. To those I say good riddance.

rglullis 5y ago

The matching happens on-device. The targeting is done by the browser and it is the browser that decides what ads to show, based on the inventory that is downloaded periodically, by everyone. This is why there is the need to confirmation, so that Brave (and the publisher) can have a way to count how many ads were served and how much BAT is owed to each participant. At no moment it means that Brave or the publishers get any of your information. (Is there any more false misconception that you would like to have debunked, or are you just trying to earn the reputation for your username?)

annoyingnoob 5y ago
Right, the browser catalogs everything you do and sends it to Brave to share with their advertisers. I've got it.
- rglullis 5y ago
  No, you didn't get it at all. There is no activity logging and there is no "sharing". No one can prove who is the owner of the device that got the ad confirmation. No one can point at you after seeing an ad. All that is known is that advertiser X needs to pay for the confirmation Y. You don't need to reveal anything about yourself to be able to prove you have the confirmation. That's the whole point of double-blinded (or zero-knowledge) signatures. Stop misrepresenting everything about how the system works, you are being incredibly dishonest.
  - annoyingnoob 5y ago
    Did you look at the links I provided in this thread? Maybe you missed this part as being 'out of scope' of their solution: "Brave collusion with CDN to track users based on IP" What happens when you click on a Brave ad and it takes you to an advertiser's landing page? That advertiser gets to learn all kinds of things about your browser. Brave's obfuscation only goes so far, and they know how to work-around their own solution. Trust them if you'd like but I don't. I don't need yet another chromium browser. Brave offers nothing that I cannot get elsewhere and includes an ad network. I think its Brave that is being dishonest, Brave cares about telling you a story and showing you ads, its marketing.